From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yk0-x231.google.com (mail-yk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24FEA21F52C for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykdr198 with SMTP id r198so52626991ykd.3 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:34:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jMtjHxpMwM+Dt3Hedubo6yiFzfZVPV5kGiOEyKCbsQI=; b=VYqSaakBk4P91AGzLPVP9vJ+LRjxx6U0tRv+8GNT2WqXj3s2NTBUoTU0hfGk6JA4ns pwfg8o5BByqXCxV/vxoUKiOIoSjqsoQqHojz7rTWdio0u1C2qSC7ObntiuOZcBntvgbu Geb2S/Aw8/j9ChoEc5EXE67U0KB0Be+wWE9JULilvnJrwGuBbGKAn8B6NA9mV+YBdSO+ n8j3MwGAl8oK6Un7NHIlvywVl6x+7N4DT9cK4XTkgTSJbz9V09OYxzcse3b4394pkYuZ CX6zxpTR1sHxA7UyE7rpPdfuC6pkiYO3U4qn6YmdGX2oUYvEe4ERWeGYmRqxEzJtJHXl yI3Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.170.52.211 with SMTP id 202mr9742703yku.86.1434580472934; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.148.194 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:34:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5581D9CA.40201@hp.com> References: <5581D9CA.40201@hp.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 17:34:32 -0500 Message-ID: From: Benjamin Cronce To: Rick Jones Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c115cc7db6090518be4b78 Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] backbone loss statistics over the past 15 years or so? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:35:02 -0000 --001a11c115cc7db6090518be4b78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > Now in 2015 I notice that it is at 0% packet loss worldwide. Looks > > like the big boys found a way to fight any connection speed, and > > buffer issues that where the cause of what was an ever increasing > > packet loss issue. My wish is that it would now make it all the way > > down to the end of the last mile. The issues with packet loss due to > > buffer bloat that are now at the end of the home and business > > connections I feel helps lead to the congestion issues we see during > > the high use periods at night. " > > http://www.internettrafficreport.com/faq.htm#measure > > > Q: How do you measure "Internet traffic?" > > A: A test called "ping" is used to measure round-trip travel time > > along major paths on the Internet. We have several servers in > > different areas of the globe perform the same ping at the same time. > > Each test server then compares the current response to past responses > > from the same test to determine if the response was bad or good on a > > scale of 0 to 100. The scores from all test servers are averaged > > together into a single index. > > If you drill-down on regions, it will show individual routers. The > results seem to be particularly binary - a given router will have either > an index of 100 and a loss percentage of 0, or an index of 0 and a loss > percentage of 100. Asia seems to have a couple exceptions proving the rule. > > You will probably get a kick out of: > > http://www.internettrafficreport.com/faq.htm#packet Dear lord! Quote: "as long as it is under 5% or so you shouldn't even notice". In the long long ago, I've had issues with VoIP having issues with under 1% loss. Issues as in perceptible differences that were both distracting and sometimes problematic. More of the issue is that packetloss is typically associated with congestion which also means high ping times for most. Even then, 5% loss?! Until recently, I've had pings running 24/7 against external servers like Google.com, 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, 4.2.2.2, etc. At some point I let ping run for a month strait and had 0.0002% loss, two ten-thousandths of a percent, rounded to nearest. Something like 10 packets out of 2.5mil samples that were taken every 0.5sec. To my ISP during that same time period I had 0% loss. At one point I let a ping run against an Amazon AWS server in both Germany and London. Both showed about 0.01-0.001% loss over nearly a week. Both are about an 8.5k mile round trip if by a bee-line. > > I'm not sure if they are setup to report fractional packet loss percentages --001a11c115cc7db6090518be4b78 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Now in 2015 I notice = that it is at 0% packet loss worldwide.=C2=A0 Looks
> > lik= e the big boys found a way to fight any connection speed, and
>= ; > buffer issues that where the cause of what was an ever increasing
> > packet loss issue.=C2=A0 My wish is that it would now mak= e it all the way
> > down to the end of the last mile.=C2= =A0 The issues with packet loss due to
> > buffer bloat tha= t are now at the end of the home and business
> > connectio= ns I feel helps lead to the congestion issues we see during
> = > the high use periods at night. "
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
> > Q: How do you measure "Internet traffic?"
<= div>> > A: A test called "ping" is used to measure round-tr= ip travel time
> > along major paths on the Internet. We ha= ve several servers in
> > different areas of the globe perf= orm the same ping at the same time.
> > Each test server th= en compares the current response to past responses
> > from= the same test to determine if the response was bad or good on a
= > > scale of 0 to 100. The scores from all test servers are averaged<= /div>
> > together into a single index.
>=C2=A0
> If you drill-down on regions, it will show individual routers.= =C2=A0 The=C2=A0
> results seem to be particularly binary - a = given router will have either=C2=A0
> an index of 100 and a lo= ss percentage of 0, or an index of 0 and a loss=C2=A0
> percen= tage of 100.=C2=A0 Asia seems to have a couple exceptions proving the rule.=
>=C2=A0
> You will probably get a kick out of:
>=C2=A0
Dear lord! Quote: "as long as it is under 5% or so you = shouldn't even notice".

In the long long = ago, I've had issues with VoIP having issues with under 1% loss. Issues= as in perceptible differences that were both distracting and sometimes pro= blematic.

More of the issue is that packetloss is = typically associated with congestion which also means high ping times for m= ost. Even then, 5% loss?! Until recently, I've had pings running 24/7 a= gainst external servers like Google.com, 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, 4.2.2.2, etc. At= some point I let ping run for a month strait and had 0.0002% loss, two ten= -thousandths of a percent, rounded to nearest. Something like 10 packets ou= t of 2.5mil samples that were taken every 0.5sec. To my ISP during that sam= e time period I had 0% loss. At one point I let a ping run against an Amazo= n AWS server in both Germany and London. Both showed about 0.01-0.001% loss= over nearly a week. Both are about an 8.5k mile round trip if by a bee-lin= e.

>=C2=A0
> I'm not sure if t= hey are setup to report fractional packet loss percentages
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