From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EA0E3B2A3 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 19:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v186so169924928lfa.1 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:11:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EZGHMKQDS2I0C3cGDkO/ufF54ddyyBatJ+AgBFNkvsI=; b=c40C2gbWSqSy2lvEKx2bbCW4LFvpMrqw1r/aMA+UOxYbVgXs8BIKipOWDbS2dBOwbJ 6c7uuBe5weF7vU+cEyKTlvPgf/CB6htP7UZzaPUBqYGeqkWIOOQPM0/245QcvUuR8TWE Df/0WqHhL5RHFFE7LPexSaJH2OyIx6vpdZMyVRgAH+aVrk17st2eql+/EFLZ+8aEHbV7 r9rQuETu07Q60CFyKkTUk2nYwSODhUasbxarnuiDkRrMmKbJMlTOc9DyGZF/Rk0F3bm9 bFh+S7QH3GMcusWmfvVbHaNENFmOJN3vi2xuEs6UVAarQ4jl+Pv93bj4GFXAXn5OXocK 6i+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EZGHMKQDS2I0C3cGDkO/ufF54ddyyBatJ+AgBFNkvsI=; b=Xthp3NlHAyW22mlpCSZ0r2xlG5hORq7Ovh1iyJKyDhIOvEOpciu99+Hr0Pu+Vs00+d u8kHQElyPkxJiPZtH9Bbd7uwGIjTDU0Vf9jo+xrEDQFW9K0EsVuGgbjsITeU9MDvR+3Y AEpPPCTgi20IIin8zogYWaYqvsIoZ1FQ/GJBaycvwj7t55x1HXGfWbN2lxSKVswPItTZ adDHwSH2ArdVtRiuWBV/bGXzovesLN8BGLGGdJ1P8O0JqeAoQtADEukPopdtXb+mpub0 JGefKRps1UnlxGnZVHE4J+UnYbkuljwetEIm46BcjHoRHaHalYumhEMwWlCXgEqVr7Pa hBgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLJ388CeCP+NlFhLwdyD0vf+Dfzj2h0596e4U0YndORbDbOLO1Q9msTHLESScMYWizK422ytCbugV82Ug== X-Received: by 10.25.196.210 with SMTP id u201mr3646421lff.69.1485562313094; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:11:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.198.150 with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:11:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Benjamin Cronce Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 18:11:52 -0600 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114b2c30f6beef05471c6d67 Subject: Re: [Bloat] Steam's TCP analysis X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 00:11:54 -0000 --001a114b2c30f6beef05471c6d67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the past I've seen issues with Windows Updates because the CDN was 1 ms away. TCP wants to have 2 segments in flight, resulting in a non-responsive TCP stream below 13Mb/s. CDNs with low RTTs cause cause issues with low bandwidth connections. Not only does DSL tend to have a low first hop latency, it also tends to have less bandwidth than cable, making it a prime victim for on-site CDNs. I just attempted to install a game(about 1GiB) from Steam and it quickly made about 20 connections to my ISP's on-site CDN. Even if you assume a 10ms ping for someone with DSL, that's a minimum of about 1.3Mb/s per TCP steam. Below that, TCP becomes unresponsive to congestion. 20 connections times 1.3Mb/s is 26Mb/s of packet flooding power. On Jan 27, 2017 10:15 AM, "Dave Taht" wrote: > All over the net I hear of the bloated horrors steam and windows 10 > updates are inflicting on people, and several saying that inbound > shaping isn't helping. I finally got two captures of a steam download > here: > > https://github.com/tohojo/sqm-scripts/issues/43#issuecomment-275281826 > > And aside from some potential oddities (window, timestamp) didn't see > anything terribly odd in the first trace I got there. Could someone > take a look with smarter eyeballs than I have? > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software! > http://blog.cerowrt.org > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --001a114b2c30f6beef05471c6d67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the past I've seen issues with Wi= ndows Updates because the CDN was 1 ms away. TCP wants to have 2 segments i= n flight, resulting in a non-responsive TCP stream below 13Mb/s. CDNs with = low RTTs cause cause issues with low bandwidth connections. Not only does D= SL tend to have a low first hop latency, it also tends to have less bandwid= th than cable, making it a prime victim for on-site CDNs.

I just attempted to install a game(about 1GiB) from St= eam and it quickly made about 20 connections to my ISP's on-site CDN. E= ven if you assume a 10ms ping for someone with DSL, that's a minimum of= about 1.3Mb/s per TCP steam. Below that, TCP becomes unresponsive to conge= stion. 20 connections times 1.3Mb/s is 26Mb/s of packet flooding power.

On Jan 27, 2017= 10:15 AM, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
All over the net I hear of the bloated ho= rrors steam and windows 10
updates are inflicting on people, and several saying that inbound
shaping isn't helping. I finally got two captures of a steam download here:

https://github.com/tohojo/sqm-= scripts/issues/43#issuecomment-275281826

And aside from some potential oddities (window, timestamp) didn't see anything terribly odd in the first trace I got there. Could someone
take a look with smarter eyeballs than I have?

--
Dave T=C3=A4ht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
ht= tp://blog.cerowrt.org
_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
--001a114b2c30f6beef05471c6d67--