From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57E23B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:29:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id c13so11846546lfg.0 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:29:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/DWHLovb87w5PVNOLGlLwDpCqtskD9Ue6eEwOfNMHOU=; b=d/YYsVOcG6sba2qpPLwHQWe1ILo3T1rib+InjY3x43icwb8nNy1X8hwXR1cqsUK/Xr XQVdpgDcxrHdQG6MNA0vGiobL3BemkNSQP2IMf/SU4Y35wwDhtmrWhrEn2UzhO0nl/i9 rdElzKnT97cJBNRdLV4x8kTWsTLroC9WOPz+M2E+KoJOtlRqZoSyjt/hnyMEgOI00Vhn g9fPP92MYBMx5+H1Cj2zeu1b62hHBKYOJS27KKqI3Itv2J5ZfA3pWPPNdl6PysswWzxn OG63u7zIH4HJ6pahfxVcZ16OycZ/ZTb5hfywdCK9FBg4+mBhbvV98wXP+y7qUY6oExPS yWuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/DWHLovb87w5PVNOLGlLwDpCqtskD9Ue6eEwOfNMHOU=; b=X93RKeviRNaUX4mMS4UjRDLNhNyl+3OcGHvE8TlZW78nclIeZGpf3wzoqQ9e74dKVG EpWJF9yp5wPcje9GQXVQgWYudcLI9HGsp19UROAkcuVlHy+paRLMjSibIimpIEU7ouC7 oik0ncRm6ktba9+8ynj0reewLEqgGM+x9fuxhpKlN7DqVPEsePdKcXYb5FjMcN87GfCf s0f4H9Gq8StbWIMbJc+VOY8AlmoBSx8ReBarnpGwsnQaskREu7cEpm2WFluYI/Y/I7aC t+KJOJ9HQs/Hb59y+W3PbkNQEhk1muBYaUgWMS43OhTBLb7Ny0QF2vli/NAUnT/ednnG 5R3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00a7uxhd0e8z8iaOmWO93B2+Iz54kJdBuUeuwqA8ppfEPOBtNsDBl95r+1xm+dveEQ2TEypOYUQLiiBdA== X-Received: by 10.46.8.26 with SMTP id 26mr2063212lji.22.1479929379468; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:29:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.16.85 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:29:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> <2e7e4dbe-5a95-93f3-89de-447f6bf970f9@gmail.com> From: Benjamin Cronce Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 13:29:38 -0600 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Noah Causin , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045ec2daf4bdfd0541fce84d Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 19:29:40 -0000 --f403045ec2daf4bdfd0541fce84d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I meant the actual physical link, not the provisioned rate. Most last mile tech encapsulates Ethernet frames into larger super-frames. Decapsulating the Ethernet frames is pretty much at 1Gb line rate. On my GPON link, with shaping in PFSense turned off, I regularly see 4,000+ 1500byte datagrams at full 1Gb link rate hitting my WAN before my ISP starts shaping to my 150Mb/s average. When I had a cable modem, I would see similar, except instead of a constant 1Gb/s, I would see bursts of multiple packets, then a small pause, but eventually the packets started to get more and more spaced as the provisioned average started to kick in. I assumed this was because my DOCSIS3 8x bonded link could only max out around 300Mb/s, even though my provisioned rate was only 30Mb/s. It really depended on the quantum of the shaping algorithm, calculated average window size, and how elastic or strict it was. Ahh, packet packing, what a fun problem. On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:38 PM, David Lang wrote: > On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Benjamin Cronce wrote: > > Most people only have a 1Gb network link, >> > > umm, no, most people have FAR slower links, by an order or two of > magnatude. > > David Lang > --f403045ec2daf4bdfd0541fce84d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I meant the actual physical link, not the provisioned rate= . Most last mile tech encapsulates Ethernet frames into larger super-frames= . Decapsulating the Ethernet frames is pretty much at 1Gb line rate. On my = GPON link, with shaping in PFSense turned off, I regularly see 4,000+ 1500b= yte datagrams at full 1Gb link rate hitting my WAN before my ISP starts sha= ping to my 150Mb/s average. When I had a cable modem, I would see similar, = except instead of a constant 1Gb/s, I would see bursts of multiple packets,= then a small pause, but eventually the packets started to get more and mor= e spaced as the provisioned average started to kick in. I assumed this was = because my DOCSIS3 8x bonded link could only max out around 300Mb/s, even t= hough my provisioned rate was only 30Mb/s.

It really dep= ended on the quantum of the shaping algorithm, calculated average window si= ze, and how elastic or strict it was.

Ahh, packet = packing, what a fun problem.

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 12:38 PM, David Lang <david@lan= g.hm> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Benjamin Cronce wrote:

Most people only have a 1Gb network link,

 umm, no, most people have FAR slower links, by an order or two of magnatude= .

David Lang

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