From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vn0-x236.google.com (mail-vn0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c0f::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EACE221F1A7 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by vnbg7 with SMTP id g7so1624614vnb.11 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=RWxHc7kl2YEBzcke+V4j2t/jVEvXlfsXBfs1IdO7FGU=; b=GLc1wCL7S9j6FeQTUQP/8wm6FsxunXfExXWM/uPOAxlxzI97ET5qh1IzNdAiAg4q6/ JbJhoEmTreRURArJrqFbYHzlhxq+l68q0NgNgVkUvEbeQz1aqZ23UIE/nrrRERApGWfH vHMe6ubqtTjCARNfqEruTRwVtA8+UgnMM0eJso77izTnFoodReJkXRjb0lKQN1mCNSgD a9dCbzhXBCTUJB4/lBHpwKwlT4Jm0bWJDBMsTzl1Jb9hLBXZc4HYQFYLDhGOt1/1+8vJ N+K7MyezQWYvLkcTGzW9woKJ7Y8ilnf4mCF6xRcDI6ImGoZ6RN2gw2qU9fZK1mDGMnGV cu6Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.112.7 with SMTP id im7mr2961554vdb.95.1429804368714; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.12.167 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.12.167 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Apr 2015 08:52:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2C987A4B-7459-43C1-A49C-72F600776B00@gmail.com> <14cd9e74e48.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net> <20150422040453.GB36239@sesse.net> <1429676935.18561.42.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <12383_1429692679_55376107_12383_9099_1_p7gmr0psut68sen0sao8o4lp.1429692550899@email.android.com> <1429710657.18561.68.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <25065_1429716388_5537BDA4_25065_2328_1_63pyislbvtjf653k3qt8gw2c.1429715929544@email.android.com> <1429717468.18561.90.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <5537CDB7.60301@orange.com> <1429722979.18561.112.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <5537DA20.1090008@orange.com> <5537DE4D.8090100@orange.com> <553882D7.4020301@orange.com> <1429771718.22254.32.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> <1429798255.22254.48.camel@edumazet-glaptop2.roam.corp.google.com> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 18:52:48 +0300 Message-ID: From: Jonathan Morton To: renaud sallantin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec548a6ab7ee0ae051466458f Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] DSLReports Speed Test has latency measurement built-in X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 15:53:21 -0000 --bcaec548a6ab7ee0ae051466458f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > By curiosity, what is now responsible for the drops if not the congestion? I think the point was not that observed drops are not caused by congestion, but that congestion doesn't reliably cause drops. Correlation is not causation. There are also cases when drops are in fact caused by something other than congestion, including faulty ADSL phone lines. Some local loop providers have been known to explicitly consider several percent of packet loss due to line conditions as "not a fault", to the consternation of the actual ISP who was trying to provide a decent device over it. - Jonathan Morton --bcaec548a6ab7ee0ae051466458f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> By curiosity, what is now responsible for the drops if = not the congestion?

I think the point was not that observed drops are not caused= by congestion, but that congestion doesn't reliably cause drops. Corre= lation is not causation.

There are also cases when drops are in fact caused by someth= ing other than congestion, including faulty ADSL phone lines. Some local lo= op providers have been known to explicitly consider several percent of pack= et loss due to line conditions as "not a fault", to the consterna= tion of the actual ISP who was trying to provide a decent device over it.

- Jonathan Morton

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