From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x231.google.com (mail-qt0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39B613B2A4 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 17:03:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g9so989669qth.9 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:03:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MzjSfHtgUI64luLokvd9SdiVQs8xl5M8miA+2O7XMNw=; b=Y8v+0x1QF6dUXiJfFq/74GY2viouRuZl0S20jiGWmsXR49qmO0DpP2+59zdGK7sYol PP9c4H2ZwfWyCuaecSBRjfbR68MhJAeksGjmfSQbdOldeHDmoj3P46/IPFgAsXhwWWNz F7iqSjEftVPF0MgKnaJcgiy4zi4TlsBxQt5Do+8BzBgRjVrx77DCSer9nKzN30ue6Q8/ YPjx8RRiSywiKyYibLJnH8eDAoGLgR2ldAYa/SpB4pmY+j4cN/nJoy9YdM4op7ufcwWZ gYnONHdeTApWrjp3NgQLeX/LZkv3RV3wLXvSqcOAMp6xHQNVXpsTiTDM0tuWOs4ATrAF lj+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MzjSfHtgUI64luLokvd9SdiVQs8xl5M8miA+2O7XMNw=; b=lvx+MS3n8ZByNrCPwle6PHrXIQkWCUD1ZSWgV6jTxMS8Zhy+EYqSLZ38xD5n8y6n+I /r9mzoezuew3acST8ezhLhJsTmAgiLvpt2aMXOfYxZJg/alfmpAtrlRnk6WKWhGwHfTK /1GZZ5uo2IhN0x5vSyzSLDi+9wykjexJKHL1E3pQwULEPBppQ552oIjfaoJx5df0uuYb 3Vph39i53odh7RpeIqaViWTqZs0DvWcsDN8hIpxiyd0BaUuOWqfEUXpqpGRmckUpLnVc NdPguxqTAGYU9eM8CMje5gCsbgiiZTGNREp/Lo8w7Y9lRwL2ZRt125TEG0ji5GR6mvsJ 7Dag== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIQqEgDlpBbCSEEAh870iRtcxyY1inR94LDv0tPd6qVxqriWbPg JqWu0UJBenFJW33We0UsA6qE6r7pAzqqqxt2Ehk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovak3j6hNJQsithp23upuLDvxjkV2LzuilwqKTCE82PDRmkrI/yAqCFp60XDjEnr35Y+/SCnCHWss343vAWMqs= X-Received: by 10.200.45.150 with SMTP id p22mr7619280qta.130.1513116205878; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:03:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.102.179 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.102.179 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:03:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4D0E907C-E15D-437C-B6F7-FF348346D615@gmx.de> <019064B3-835C-4D59-BE52-9E86EE08CD02@gmx.de> From: Jonathan Morton Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 00:03:24 +0200 Message-ID: To: Benjamin Cronce Cc: Sebastian Moeller , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144b8ccf4940105602bd16f" Subject: Re: [Bloat] benefits of ack filtering X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:03:26 -0000 --001a1144b8ccf4940105602bd16f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The one "correct" argument against ack-filtering I've seen is that it encourages (or rather validates) the use of extreme asymmetry ratios. However, these extreme ratios are already in widespread use without the aid of ack-filtering. Even ADSL2 Annex A has, as its "ideal" sync rate, a 16:1 ratio, which Annex M modifies to under 10:1. I fear we must conclude that technical considerations are not the driving factor here. A better place to sort out the asymmetry problem (as well as several other problems of current interest) would be in a free, competitive market. Sadly such a thing is rare in the telecoms sector. - Jonathan Morton --001a1144b8ccf4940105602bd16f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The one "correct" argument against ack-filtering I= 've seen is that it encourages (or rather validates) the use of extreme= asymmetry ratios.

However, these extreme ratios are already in widespread use = without the aid of ack-filtering.=C2=A0 Even ADSL2 Annex A has, as its &quo= t;ideal" sync rate, a 16:1 ratio, which Annex M modifies to under 10:1= .=C2=A0 I fear we must conclude that technical considerations are not the d= riving factor here.

A better place to sort out the asymmetry problem (as well as= several other problems of current interest) would be in a free, competitiv= e market.=C2=A0 Sadly such a thing is rare in the telecoms sector.

- Jonathan Morton

--001a1144b8ccf4940105602bd16f--