From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7720C3CB41 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 18:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id eh3so21598762edb.11 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 15:57:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=perens.com; s=google; t=1679785075; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xFOsxdwj0WTszMhgWsXrmr3eJ7inbRuBxxRZnckJ0CE=; b=EKMyQXnxNVer+2KU6IsTQukT49CZBYeyuodm4UfufbvxQbGoAxTN7dmVMtOHM/XlwW FwxFsmc45Dmx5vlYjjqpdDMIQ31CPBnhda+A9iHWJJEPo8BA9oLREITHCmDjYJBLy5wu a/nnd8NUhBmEFH0i/QmEVelYcYQldy5cfUe6c= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679785075; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xFOsxdwj0WTszMhgWsXrmr3eJ7inbRuBxxRZnckJ0CE=; b=tSZ658ECuEABPwFzA8QShuO1s5SVjHUVW41mrbMyJzBmhPXtJoI7BqdT/ZSUtI8oKV 9mJ2A98O+6e1f3kMQnSnB/wdjwpX0ZrUiafuTVnsqo9ByFwlrFUu2VjMQRGgQlUObf5k oaYo6FB4opk00q9UWa1TrgW8i5l2Z6XCdAWr8kVdrWszpiWwTLu9oJn1A9iIDJc7aDpX 1glEenw0r2hd6mL7R9micqN5PKsxAVFixc67DI3mwFUw6bzfyrMssO8Tz9kgoX/5s/IN simLX7qUud1B1+rfN6rSC/BEPMuj9xxrV03u7oPxbLzAE7fjV+efYG+Qn7ZnMGWvAuyS 7cNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eMTr+gA0Dl+f02z/8qVQWQemQQbqvoZCwxvWkSlLnJ6+CwS7Ed mQa7A9tMRpopLdU2NNYag2BZIA+m7b2rT2FqWEsEgA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Z8oi+9KfK/TDwumkytO/Bf+O7moDpuOr7bruN3RlqviGquXIoEbD0lc0Qk/3Qq3/4ryG8ectePqXtc57C+C98= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:7f19:b0:926:8f9:735d with SMTP id qf25-20020a1709077f1900b0092608f9735dmr3829009ejc.3.1679785075240; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 15:57:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> <9edd011a1a6615470b34e0837896a15f@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Bruce Perens Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 15:57:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert McMahon Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , dan , Frantisek Borsik , libreqos , Rpm , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b585d505f7c170d1" Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 22:57:56 -0000 --000000000000b585d505f7c170d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 3:04=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon wrote: > My opinion is poor people shouldn't have to pay for insurance to insuranc= e > companies, companies that figure figures for a living. > Be sure to be out there campaigning at every election. Really off-topic, but IMO the current scheme of health insurance keeps many people from going into their own business, and keeps them working for large companies. I'm sure that's deliberate. Valerie works for the University, which is the only thing that kept me under health insurance - I'm just a consultant. California would give me a plan today, but most states would not. November's heart attack cost $359K, the insurance company negotiated 60K away and paid the rest, charging me $125. Prices aren't going to fall unless we get single-payer like most civilized countries. Somebody *does *h= ave to pay for health care, though, and the choices are out of your pocket, or in your taxes, or through inflation. A digression: I could do an LMR 600 passive cable system looped with > Wilkinson power dividers, patch antennas and nests to protect the egress > escape ladder for about $10 to $15K. Don't need an SLA. We've basically > priced protecting human lives to only rich people. > If it's going indoors between the units, you need plenum-rated cable. LMR is really pricey in plenum-rated, RG-6 is more than adequate and more reasonably priced. RF between units is a legacy medium, though, there should be plenum-rated CAT-8. The dividers can be of the sort specified for cable TV. Wilkinson would be overkill and this is just a tiny toroid transformer in the box. The very best way to future proof is not with any sort of wire or fiber, but with conduit with lots of room, that can be re-pulled. I think it's on us to do similar for digital communication networks. > They're needed far beyond entertainment, and we need to get public safety > elements engaged too. > I'm really dubious. Anyone who has to cope with the cost is going to hear the siren call of wireless no matter how inappropriate it is to the task. You will be lucky if fiber makes it to urban buildings. --000000000000b585d505f7c170d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 3:04=E2=80=AF= PM Robert McMahon <rjmcmahon@= rjmcmahon.com> wrote:
My opinion is poor pe= ople shouldn't have to pay for insurance to insurance companies, compan= ies that figure figures for a living.

=
Be sure to be out there campaigning at every election. Really of= f-topic, but IMO the current scheme of health insurance keeps many people f= rom going into their own business,=C2=A0and keeps them working for=C2=A0lar= ge companies. I'm sure that's=C2=A0deliberate. Valerie works for th= e University, which is the only thing that kept me under health insurance -= I'm just a consultant. California would give me a plan today, but most= states would not. November's heart attack cost $359K, the insurance co= mpany negotiated 60K away and paid the rest, charging me $125. Prices aren&= #39;t going to fall unless we get single-payer like most civilized countrie= s. Somebody does have to pay for health care, though, and the choice= s are out of your pocket, or in your taxes, or through inflation.

A digression: I could do an LMR 600 passive cable system = looped with Wilkinson power dividers, patch antennas and nests to protect t= he egress escape ladder for about $10 to $15K. Don't need an SLA. We= 9;ve basically priced protecting human lives to only rich people.

If it's going indoors between the=C2= =A0units, you need plenum-rated cable. LMR is really pricey in plenum-rated= , RG-6 is more than adequate and more reasonably priced. RF between units i= s a legacy medium, though, there should be plenum-rated CAT-8. The dividers= can be of the sort specified for cable TV. Wilkinson would be overkill and= this is just a tiny toroid transformer in the box.

The very best way to future proof is not with any sort of wire or fiber, = but with conduit with lots of room, that can be re-pulled.

I think it's on us to do similar for digital communic= ation networks. They're needed far beyond entertainment, and we need to= get public safety elements engaged too.

<= /div>
I'm really dubious. Anyone who has to cope with the cost is g= oing to hear the siren call of wireless no matter how inappropriate it is t= o the task. You will be lucky if fiber makes it to urban buildings.=C2=A0
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