From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x231.google.com (mail-oi1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69C623B2A4 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x231.google.com with SMTP id u131so3363179oie.5 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:55:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=fzrXP/Bei/5pCIc8zGBIORoHyzMqV6QsJ0MOM7MKb1Y=; b=Ao5aovbZ4sHTIyr4WVDWuSB/ocwkzkikPaYIaHOTwqUVLyyRENLrPp8rytLuufJhOp EjCYt2M2LwGXd2rGnAsTvQ28t1mHcpLW9KLJWc3MdtcoN8UBUyiabNtNSk/roxhpwrE7 Gev/jE79jcAjyZaGjpTdiiQglJ+2xV4kqX54vcnzFir7F5zlELUDkI5zQUOtj/v8Aj+B hHOcurf7jIiz5aDZgfHwrpdGifpbE8qb8t4Cj3nssBAzFNTiMcFG7CUjDj9Ivr1jy/bM naakF7wXxYloHUhZRE50cMQ9q54LLoC8xKzwsAIKlFihAWgfq/JTGlrVg0IVP35cC2sQ jbhw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=fzrXP/Bei/5pCIc8zGBIORoHyzMqV6QsJ0MOM7MKb1Y=; b=JmkW/YPyyxdwNq5aPzP4K07A4g0dj2Y1cJ2FgoZZMwyUb1aeyagEDdwB8LpzG35mJ0 7vwGlLdYEiCUB2SRcaPe6P1zRq6LoGm7mVOrsf569LPWy4z9wosMHeeFfUXUeOdrfhwO s+mU2IxwsMMEfma/Q/lamGI2uP8Q1eBtRoTEIT++8iTzg8bMFNKeS8A3awY97AWm7JsJ 0Hb9ln7D2BCp0iRAtsaVhRWQW/SrHuZ5DfJpNpZFzvYsIe+Tx2aeC1YYOdXWXWruavU7 bIfjh8e9sMOJcx8DWxfRgJzqfcdg+DpZEHT0yOKvo2dN6MC2ce2SGHLMy3btjC4+ii54 p4Cw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo38XUxVnLUDC2nA5NSkByme0VWHhgKU3f8wbtk4VgeI7aS1IepU UlYfH9YX7B5GVPDERlCdjlsLhoBePu+SPrcsOB41lq+x X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5YhiaE1ulYRkjG2ibDJqwrI2Q7MDzqiTa0bU/zfoLCze6eG9QZAz+2KfBQxScoFLtIEgL6YO5iMkOJGuKG9Z8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1496:b0:350:4640:5462 with SMTP id e22-20020a056808149600b0035046405462mr1261105oiw.47.1663268147589; Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:55:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <245E9A33-DAD2-4B91-AED8-AA7940C52CA4@cable.comcast.com> <053A419B-C196-4C31-BB8F-0FDF793150A1@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <053A419B-C196-4C31-BB8F-0FDF793150A1@gmx.de> From: "Luis A. Cornejo" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:55:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: Arie , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001a77b605e8bbcb68" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Game Demo Suggestions? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 18:55:48 -0000 --0000000000001a77b605e8bbcb68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree that a background task would help. It can also be something common but non obvious, like you just came back from a recital and you recorded it on your phone. When you get home, your phone decides to backup to, iCloud or Google photos etc and your upload can easily be filled. Cloud gaming, FPS or even team sports like FIFA or Madden where things constantly move. -Luis On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 12:47 PM Sebastian Moeller via Bloat < bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > I think it depends on the audience and how much time they will spend on > watching. > > For hard-core gamers your ideas will likely work well. For a more general > public I think Lieuwe's idea might be more obvious, as comparing smooth > versus stuttering display should be pretty salient even for people that d= o > not know the game well. > > I wonder whether the test should not also include say two other machines > on the same WAN link that are busy streaming in fullHD or UHD just to > spice things up a bit. After all on a link that is otherwise idle all gam= es > should work reasonably well, it is only under competition from other > traffic and transient congestion when an AQM would really shine. > > Regards > Sebastian > > > On Sep 15, 2022, at 19:37, Arie via Bloat > wrote: > > > > Games with network indicators. BF V has a good one built-in that can be > activated in the multiplayer options. High ping, variable ping and loss > will be indicated with BF V's indicator icons and a detailed overlay if y= ou > enable it. > > > > Source-based games that allow you to open net_graph, e.g. Team Fortress > 2 with net_graph 5 enabled. You can see rising ping and packet loss clear= ly > on the graph. > > > > On Thu, 15 Sept 2022 at 15:54, Livingood, Jason via Bloat < > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Some of my colleagues in the office are recording video of gaming with > and without AQM (bloated vs unbloated), etc. Any suggestions on games tha= t > will really make this obvious & compelling =E2=80=93 something cool and w= orthy of > posting on YouTube? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > Jason > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --0000000000001a77b605e8bbcb68 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree that a background task would help. It can also be= something common but non obvious, like you just came back from a recital a= nd you recorded it on your phone. When you get home, your phone decides to = backup to, iCloud or Google photos etc and your upload can easily be filled= .

Cloud gaming, FPS or e= ven team sports like FIFA or Madden where things constantly move.

-Luis

On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at= 12:47 PM Sebastian Moeller via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
I think it depends on the audience and how much time they will spen= d on watching.

For hard-core gamers your ideas will likely work well. For a more general p= ublic I think Lieuwe's idea might be more obvious, as comparing smooth = versus stuttering display should be pretty salient even for people that do = not know the game well.

I wonder whether the test should not also include say two other machines on= the same WAN link that are busy streaming in=C2=A0 fullHD or UHD just to s= pice things up a bit. After all on a link that is otherwise idle all games = should work reasonably well, it is only under competition from other traffi= c and transient congestion when an AQM would really shine.

Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebastian

> On Sep 15, 2022, at 19:37, Arie via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>= ; wrote:
>
> Games with network indicators. BF V has a good one built-in that can b= e activated in the multiplayer options. High ping, variable ping and loss w= ill be indicated with BF V's indicator icons and a detailed overlay if = you enable it.
>
> Source-based games that allow you to open net_graph, e.g. Team Fortres= s 2 with net_graph 5 enabled. You can see rising ping and packet loss clear= ly on the graph.
>
> On Thu, 15 Sept 2022 at 15:54, Livingood, Jason via Bloat <bloat@lists.buffe= rbloat.net> wrote:
> Some of my colleagues in the office are recording video of gaming with= and without AQM (bloated vs unbloated), etc. Any suggestions on games that= will really make this obvious & compelling =E2=80=93 something cool an= d worthy of posting on YouTube?
>
>=C2=A0
>
> Thanks!
> Jason
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat= @lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat= @lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
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Bloat mailing list
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