From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-x235.google.com (mail-yw0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE0553CB35 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 04:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw0-x235.google.com with SMTP id w128so6418312ywa.1 for ; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 01:31:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=7OLOR9xSst4SNTp68X/kh5A6TdsJcacERcX39/oT6GA=; b=GTKpDFekhcpPad67B3D4i/WyuKqa6b1xUjh8LQZQa2RhsVseQ154HrQ9R+c8jy/oV5 pVc+qMK4feXfhg7+X4WpYrUt6Cw49CNWY2GYOXld57zmA63k7JlMUTzePbJn5ca/iaB+ TsIflFufpCLsG3hCzA2kxFyH3DRWy1LV0jzRo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7OLOR9xSst4SNTp68X/kh5A6TdsJcacERcX39/oT6GA=; b=tuhY9UwePhNMDUfATIGlLI4lK7E6jkg7S1ZpT68ksrnbSnQgGw1oaJ+XdxXoha21JY 0XWmLcSFzTUS3esDmsFUmfTRAJFagfCYWbp7/wXJJL03Nhmm4sORusAIKiEOon8IR9or 7b7fxd+wxY00UBOdBk33L32cAGX8qmArVoILsRTeWmB6Xs+/kYLyHS1T2l8CR1VlA+JD hjoQouqa82CEGqtBYN5r6rv2BUJIwPg6jkEj69NUq8z2xQu2B2CU3PZxGdUnl6ORiIFo Vk2StF0wz/zMaEGZfKBQVvhJFUQJ4kop/uaNJ4a5THuvmY7hoo1BcoTdFD6KqfOzSWqn xaww== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6/9c8yglaMHpcKn3ICUpddvt2TQeRlVUNAzZjDELtJ+7ctMHWa SA6EG/S+dfNDr6pbussX7f4L4FJDXGCnHV4s+V/LqHDc X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZdkQq5snqea+eysdpBhHXDXjpmr+UFU0S/WjNu9XincEMNSIj/zTiy99VMV7i5JD0kGUKxJoJZlDsTIcNxoOs= X-Received: by 10.13.248.2 with SMTP id i2mr10200830ywf.448.1512379881240; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 01:31:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 10.37.173.2 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 01:31:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <92906bd8-7bad-945d-83c8-a2f9598aac2c@lackof.org> <87bmjff7l6.fsf_-_@nemesis.taht.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 22:31:00 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: q8zeYKkPrwbkmNmhDOrwyCLYBCM Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: Dave Taht , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] DC behaviors today X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 09:31:22 -0000 I'm not going to pretend that 1Gig isn't enough for most people. But I refuse to believe it's the networks equivalent of a 10A power (20A depending on where you live in the world) AC residential phase distribution circuit. This isn't a question about what people need, it's more about what the market can deliver. 10GPON (GPON-X) and others now make it a viable service that can and is being deployed in residential and commercial access networks. 3 years ago delivering an access network Capable of anything beyond 2.5Gbit was pretty much a Business case non-starter. The problem is now that Retail Servicer Provider X can deliver a post Gigabit service... what is capable of taking it off the ONU/CMNT point in the home? As usual it's a follow the money question, once RSP's can deliver Gbit+ they will need an ecosystem in the home to feed into it, and right now there isn't a good technology platform that supports it; 10GBase-X/10GBaseT is a non-starter due to the variability in home wiring - arguably the 7 year leap from 100-1000mbit was easy It's mean a gap of 12 years and counting for the same.. it's not just the NIC's and CPU's in the gateways it's the connector and in-home wiring problems as well. Blatant Plug - request : I'm interested to hear opinions on this as I have a talk on this very topic 'The long and Winding Road to 10Gbit+ in the home' https://linux.conf.au/ at Linuxconf in January. In particular if you have any home network gore/horror stories and photos you would be happy for me to include in my talk, please include. -Joel on the tweeters: @aenertia On 4 December 2017 at 22:13, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Sun, 3 Dec 2017, Dave Taht wrote: > >> What Jesper's been working on for ages has been to try and get linux's PPS >> up for small packets, which last I heard was hovering at about 4Gbits. > > > You might want to look into what the VPP (https://fd.io/) peeps are doing. > They can at least forward packets at pretty impressive rates. 200Mpps zero > frame loss with 2M FIB, limited to NIC and PCIe, not CPU (on many-core > machine). > >> I have never thought there was much of a market for gbit to or from the >> home. 40Mbits is enough for nearly everybody until > 4k video with >> smellovision and tactile feedback become a standard. > > > I'd say the sweet spot right now is in the 100-250 megabit/s range, > considering "cost of production" and "what do people need/use". This means > it still can be done on 1 gigabit/s access links. > > Anything faster than 1GE is going to be significantly more expensive than > 1GE because 1GE is "good enough for most" when it comes to hundreds of > millions of households for their inter/intra home need. Also for SME use, > 1GE is good enough for a lot of use cases. > > I personally now have 250/50 which is good enough for me, and I don't want > to pay 2x my current MRC to get 1000/100. However, if I had to downgrade to > 30 megabit/s I would most certinaly notice it, and in my market that would > just be a 20-30% saving which definitely isn't worth it. > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel