Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] DC behaviors today

["Joel Wirāmu Pauling" <joel@aenertia.net>]

Oh we have these in the Enterprise segment already. The main use case
is VNF on edge device for SDN applications right now. But even so the
range of vendors/devices is pretty limited.

On 4 December 2017 at 23:57, Pedro Tumusok <pedro.tumusok@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looking at chipsets coming/just arrived from the chipset vendors, I think we
> will see CPE with 10G SFP+ and 802.11ax Q3/Q4 this year.
> Price is of course a bit steeper than the 15USD USB DSL modem :P, but
> probably fits nicely for the SMB segment.
>
> Pedro
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> Bingo; that's definitely step one - gateways capable of 10gbit
>> becoming the norm.
>>
>> On 4 December 2017 at 23:43, Pedro Tumusok <pedro.tumusok@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > For in home or even SMB, I doubt that 10G to the user PC is the main use
>> > case.
>> > Its having the uplink capable of support of more than1G, that 1G does
>> > not
>> > necessarily need to be generated by only one host on the LAN.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Pedro
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> How to deliver a switch, when the wiring and port standard isn't
>> >> actually workable?
>> >>
>> >> 10GBase-T is out of Voltage Spec with SFP+ ; you can get copper SFP+
>> >> but they are out of spec... 10GbaseT doesn't really work over Cat5e
>> >> more than a couple of meters (if you are lucky) and even Cat6 is only
>> >> rated at 30M... there is a reason no-one is producing Home Copper
>> >> switches and it's not just the NIC Silicon cost (that was a factor
>> >> until Recently obviously, but only part of the equation).
>> >>
>> >> On the flip side:
>> >> Right now I am typing this via a 40gbit network, comprised of the
>> >> cheap and readily available Tb3 port - it's daisy chained and limited
>> >> to 6 ports, but right now it's easily the cheapest and most effective
>> >> port. Pitty that the fabled optical tb3 cables are damn expensive...
>> >> so you're limited to daisy-chains of 2m. They seem to have screwed the
>> >> pooch on the USB-C network standard quite badly - which looked so
>> >> promising, so for the moment Tb3 it is for me at least.
>> >>
>> >> On 4 December 2017 at 23:18, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, 4 Dec 2017, Joel Wirāmu Pauling wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I'm not going to pretend that 1Gig isn't enough for most people. But
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> refuse to believe it's the networks equivalent of a 10A power (20A
>> >> >> depending on where you live in the world) AC residential phase
>> >> >> distribution circuit.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > That's a good analogy. I actually believe it is, at least for the
>> >> > near
>> >> > 5-10
>> >> > years.
>> >> >
>> >> >> This isn't a question about what people need, it's more about what
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> market can deliver. 10GPON (GPON-X) and others now make it a viable
>> >> >> service that can and is being deployed in residential and commercial
>> >> >> access networks.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, you're sharing that bw with everybody else on that splitter.
>> >> > Sounds to
>> >> > me that the service being delivered over that would instead be in the
>> >> > 2-3
>> >> > gigabit/s range for the individual subscriber (this is what I
>> >> > typically
>> >> > see
>> >> > on equivalent shared mediums, that the top speed individual
>> >> > subscriptions
>> >> > are will be in the 20-40% of max theoretical speed the entire
>> >> > solution
>> >> > can
>> >> > deliver).
>> >> >
>> >> >> The problem is now that Retail Servicer Provider X can deliver a
>> >> >> post
>> >> >> Gigabit service... what is capable of taking it off the ONU/CMNT
>> >> >> point
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> the home? As usual it's a follow the money question, once RSP's can
>> >> >> deliver
>> >> >> Gbit+ they will need an ecosystem in the home to feed into it, and
>> >> >> right now
>> >> >> there isn't a good technology platform that supports it;
>> >> >> 10GBase-X/10GBaseT
>> >> >> is a non-starter due to the variability in home wiring - arguably
>> >> >> the 7
>> >> >> year
>> >> >> leap from 100-1000mbit was easy It's mean a gap of 12 years and
>> >> >> counting for
>> >> >> the same.. it's not just the NIC's and CPU's in the gateways it's
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> connector and in-home wiring problems as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > As soon as one goes above 1GE, prices increases A LOT on everything
>> >> > involved. I doubt we'll see any 2.5G or higher speed equipment in
>> >> > wide
>> >> > use
>> >> > in home/SME in the next 5 years.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Blatant Plug - request :
>> >> >> I'm interested to hear opinions on this as I have a talk on this
>> >> >> very
>> >> >> topic 'The long and Winding Road to 10Gbit+ in the home'
>> >> >> https://linux.conf.au/ at Linuxconf in January. In particular if you
>> >> >> have any home network gore/horror stories and photos you would be
>> >> >> happy for me to include in my talk, please include.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I am still waiting for a decently priced 10GE switch. I can get 1GE
>> >> > 24port
>> >> > managed ones, fanless, for 100-200USD. As soon as I go 10GE, price
>> >> > jumps
>> >> > up
>> >> > a lot, and I get fans. The NICs aren't widely available, even though
>> >> > they're
>> >> > not the biggest problem. My in-house cabling can do 10GE, but I guess
>> >> > I'm an
>> >> > outlier.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bloat mailing list
>> >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards / Mvh
>> > Jan Pedro Tumusok
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
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>> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards / Mvh
> Jan Pedro Tumusok
>
>
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