From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-x233.google.com (mail-yw0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75A163B2A4 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 05:59:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y187so6478448ywg.6 for ; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:59:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T+dLtQVDsxi6ALqOVQtx1q4Xw3UqEBSptqwPLC5qxlg=; b=V4VJRDBVAyKGR8Z5LwwUXLgkXLG/ZaRpEtUeQNFxRKD2lt/VVfE5VmQWkH0Si9evyA Vvv8z0g722Atqot5XySydQPnNaa5TuRz83jNt+DTaca8ztrrj5WiCbdy3SpUCrNQPjOk H6chtXe8MCt8tT2F9bNauFp0DQrPSQrYd7GO4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T+dLtQVDsxi6ALqOVQtx1q4Xw3UqEBSptqwPLC5qxlg=; b=AR4Se1e+V/Xv0IXE1uzIjCWnEhhUg9VjeMBkNqPskSOdLErNAVgeafIe17nJjko/xo z0bQIGfajwOMMKRSyaEECBqZgzhqzVzwGIf+w73S1MzFyD87SDZS/m5HiltsblKSm/y/ ntLk8NQtR9WFWU/o8NMJeCok1jvg6oebuFdIdVcVoZdFw4Gur94hlGLBkw/50F+/9bet A3awsupqRfxZaySY0hWb3agICjepjS7G22AMpwBMfd7icYZGCT28D5RAU9i2BsDriuvU BBLNT9cdm/aCWTeTSJaIFBELw9jeVU1FldrbjrSa82yYacxQe8np7r1hpahmGyADUniU Gb2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6h53iwQezqWBD9zdPErDtxHVfHf3Sqw3AbcN4eNiWvPHkvDndZ h0D9vva2atHM8eUpUZqVScc/+D8IXNYb7BGWhq4I3A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaAkn6xvHt5PtJWhKoc2fbdbNMEZ192eEB4lRt+eC3kSXBrcqDxAvcd2Gey+O8WAxwE9Br6FKl8tBEpsMvTxqE= X-Received: by 10.129.119.66 with SMTP id s63mr10024140ywc.66.1512385174720; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:59:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 10.37.173.2 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 02:59:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <92906bd8-7bad-945d-83c8-a2f9598aac2c@lackof.org> <87bmjff7l6.fsf_-_@nemesis.taht.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 23:59:14 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: mytD0N45Rc6Ivj0w6hg5UE7hFpQ Message-ID: To: Pedro Tumusok Cc: bloat , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] DC behaviors today X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:59:35 -0000 Oh we have these in the Enterprise segment already. The main use case is VNF on edge device for SDN applications right now. But even so the range of vendors/devices is pretty limited. On 4 December 2017 at 23:57, Pedro Tumusok wrote: > Looking at chipsets coming/just arrived from the chipset vendors, I think= we > will see CPE with 10G SFP+ and 802.11ax Q3/Q4 this year. > Price is of course a bit steeper than the 15USD USB DSL modem :P, but > probably fits nicely for the SMB segment. > > Pedro > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling > wrote: >> >> Bingo; that's definitely step one - gateways capable of 10gbit >> becoming the norm. >> >> On 4 December 2017 at 23:43, Pedro Tumusok >> wrote: >> > For in home or even SMB, I doubt that 10G to the user PC is the main u= se >> > case. >> > Its having the uplink capable of support of more than1G, that 1G does >> > not >> > necessarily need to be generated by only one host on the LAN. >> > >> > >> > >> > Pedro >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> How to deliver a switch, when the wiring and port standard isn't >> >> actually workable? >> >> >> >> 10GBase-T is out of Voltage Spec with SFP+ ; you can get copper SFP+ >> >> but they are out of spec... 10GbaseT doesn't really work over Cat5e >> >> more than a couple of meters (if you are lucky) and even Cat6 is only >> >> rated at 30M... there is a reason no-one is producing Home Copper >> >> switches and it's not just the NIC Silicon cost (that was a factor >> >> until Recently obviously, but only part of the equation). >> >> >> >> On the flip side: >> >> Right now I am typing this via a 40gbit network, comprised of the >> >> cheap and readily available Tb3 port - it's daisy chained and limited >> >> to 6 ports, but right now it's easily the cheapest and most effective >> >> port. Pitty that the fabled optical tb3 cables are damn expensive... >> >> so you're limited to daisy-chains of 2m. They seem to have screwed th= e >> >> pooch on the USB-C network standard quite badly - which looked so >> >> promising, so for the moment Tb3 it is for me at least. >> >> >> >> On 4 December 2017 at 23:18, Mikael Abrahamsson >> >> wrote: >> >> > On Mon, 4 Dec 2017, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> I'm not going to pretend that 1Gig isn't enough for most people. B= ut >> >> >> I >> >> >> refuse to believe it's the networks equivalent of a 10A power (20A >> >> >> depending on where you live in the world) AC residential phase >> >> >> distribution circuit. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > That's a good analogy. I actually believe it is, at least for the >> >> > near >> >> > 5-10 >> >> > years. >> >> > >> >> >> This isn't a question about what people need, it's more about what >> >> >> the >> >> >> market can deliver. 10GPON (GPON-X) and others now make it a viabl= e >> >> >> service that can and is being deployed in residential and commerci= al >> >> >> access networks. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Well, you're sharing that bw with everybody else on that splitter. >> >> > Sounds to >> >> > me that the service being delivered over that would instead be in t= he >> >> > 2-3 >> >> > gigabit/s range for the individual subscriber (this is what I >> >> > typically >> >> > see >> >> > on equivalent shared mediums, that the top speed individual >> >> > subscriptions >> >> > are will be in the 20-40% of max theoretical speed the entire >> >> > solution >> >> > can >> >> > deliver). >> >> > >> >> >> The problem is now that Retail Servicer Provider X can deliver a >> >> >> post >> >> >> Gigabit service... what is capable of taking it off the ONU/CMNT >> >> >> point >> >> >> in >> >> >> the home? As usual it's a follow the money question, once RSP's ca= n >> >> >> deliver >> >> >> Gbit+ they will need an ecosystem in the home to feed into it, and >> >> >> right now >> >> >> there isn't a good technology platform that supports it; >> >> >> 10GBase-X/10GBaseT >> >> >> is a non-starter due to the variability in home wiring - arguably >> >> >> the 7 >> >> >> year >> >> >> leap from 100-1000mbit was easy It's mean a gap of 12 years and >> >> >> counting for >> >> >> the same.. it's not just the NIC's and CPU's in the gateways it's >> >> >> the >> >> >> connector and in-home wiring problems as well. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > As soon as one goes above 1GE, prices increases A LOT on everything >> >> > involved. I doubt we'll see any 2.5G or higher speed equipment in >> >> > wide >> >> > use >> >> > in home/SME in the next 5 years. >> >> > >> >> >> Blatant Plug - request : >> >> >> I'm interested to hear opinions on this as I have a talk on this >> >> >> very >> >> >> topic 'The long and Winding Road to 10Gbit+ in the home' >> >> >> https://linux.conf.au/ at Linuxconf in January. In particular if y= ou >> >> >> have any home network gore/horror stories and photos you would be >> >> >> happy for me to include in my talk, please include. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I am still waiting for a decently priced 10GE switch. I can get 1GE >> >> > 24port >> >> > managed ones, fanless, for 100-200USD. As soon as I go 10GE, price >> >> > jumps >> >> > up >> >> > a lot, and I get fans. The NICs aren't widely available, even thoug= h >> >> > they're >> >> > not the biggest problem. My in-house cabling can do 10GE, but I gue= ss >> >> > I'm an >> >> > outlier. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Bloat mailing list >> >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Best regards / Mvh >> > Jan Pedro Tumusok >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >> > > > > > > -- > Best regards / Mvh > Jan Pedro Tumusok > > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >