From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb0-x231.google.com (mail-yb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C3FF3CB40 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 05:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb0-x231.google.com with SMTP id p128so6399508yba.7 for ; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:47:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4eAJjo299lVx3InwxE0u8jogR9wnSnRD0EQokZRgGEE=; b=RukI85hywwnjLWBIJ6g09ILeQf/RUWK/bIqHefAj0fooWiWJH/1fRS7G+iapkh4yoI t2zDrP6IrtWjmzkU5+Y36D8RsP/E84/bE2/9Ix0Hh3M6Bi4VXUiwXaEeBKmDOnqmDe7C dZivZrpapbixLiYMYW11V66YCZEkm2mMndMxU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4eAJjo299lVx3InwxE0u8jogR9wnSnRD0EQokZRgGEE=; b=BaVWGiMhvRwmMMgXWt2mcRN/hxfitFYJntWtYYf4DLqnDDwqWWoETEUzC+hgp8HPYO ysYEDYU+26h3rDrzM98cfpempmyhSCechSt50WtvH5s1pFY/boYD7VfhzTjNiuHpiNWU l5WkF4SbtQ2n10U+aYdknPuYS/TyyGj2bOz30scLA6qwY5hrhmWR8sZu78aHWjwOgsww UbIGgiF7OHr9MJitcYR2t+6KcgePsSTQsd97dVenbR8W+2gOISKk/McDcjHzVxv1jXq9 8M9wlm+GMmBU2PDY2NWW+9xLYv7mKBDEgz4yopMW/bAc7hyrt3sZId9IgZRoz1lBNSel AXBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX40QG0GJ2pEvEhVOFq8wWO1SI2kDvqZJ/AKI0/x0f4VSlTfbBUy BY2g6SP1MNolnZaVCz9ggsf+6X56N7YGcJ7TrlxtqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZvS500mKa4BSiqoQ8YG6nNJv+Nn3LN1QH1U92v30IZH2hx8UNtJP2Td5ZkeDRgQ7RjbVSbNU/eah8Sy6CW63E= X-Received: by 10.37.36.198 with SMTP id k189mr6699832ybk.54.1512384463605; Mon, 04 Dec 2017 02:47:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 10.37.173.2 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 02:47:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <92906bd8-7bad-945d-83c8-a2f9598aac2c@lackof.org> <87bmjff7l6.fsf_-_@nemesis.taht.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 23:47:23 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZJS6xv7ZU7LUUd4awYrXRO3XRTc Message-ID: To: Pedro Tumusok Cc: bloat , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] DC behaviors today X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:47:44 -0000 Bingo; that's definitely step one - gateways capable of 10gbit becoming the norm. On 4 December 2017 at 23:43, Pedro Tumusok wrote: > For in home or even SMB, I doubt that 10G to the user PC is the main use > case. > Its having the uplink capable of support of more than1G, that 1G does not > necessarily need to be generated by only one host on the LAN. > > > > Pedro > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling > wrote: >> >> How to deliver a switch, when the wiring and port standard isn't >> actually workable? >> >> 10GBase-T is out of Voltage Spec with SFP+ ; you can get copper SFP+ >> but they are out of spec... 10GbaseT doesn't really work over Cat5e >> more than a couple of meters (if you are lucky) and even Cat6 is only >> rated at 30M... there is a reason no-one is producing Home Copper >> switches and it's not just the NIC Silicon cost (that was a factor >> until Recently obviously, but only part of the equation). >> >> On the flip side: >> Right now I am typing this via a 40gbit network, comprised of the >> cheap and readily available Tb3 port - it's daisy chained and limited >> to 6 ports, but right now it's easily the cheapest and most effective >> port. Pitty that the fabled optical tb3 cables are damn expensive... >> so you're limited to daisy-chains of 2m. They seem to have screwed the >> pooch on the USB-C network standard quite badly - which looked so >> promising, so for the moment Tb3 it is for me at least. >> >> On 4 December 2017 at 23:18, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : >> > On Mon, 4 Dec 2017, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling wrote: >> > >> >> I'm not going to pretend that 1Gig isn't enough for most people. But = I >> >> refuse to believe it's the networks equivalent of a 10A power (20A >> >> depending on where you live in the world) AC residential phase >> >> distribution circuit. >> > >> > >> > That's a good analogy. I actually believe it is, at least for the near >> > 5-10 >> > years. >> > >> >> This isn't a question about what people need, it's more about what th= e >> >> market can deliver. 10GPON (GPON-X) and others now make it a viable >> >> service that can and is being deployed in residential and commercial >> >> access networks. >> > >> > >> > Well, you're sharing that bw with everybody else on that splitter. >> > Sounds to >> > me that the service being delivered over that would instead be in the >> > 2-3 >> > gigabit/s range for the individual subscriber (this is what I typicall= y >> > see >> > on equivalent shared mediums, that the top speed individual >> > subscriptions >> > are will be in the 20-40% of max theoretical speed the entire solution >> > can >> > deliver). >> > >> >> The problem is now that Retail Servicer Provider X can deliver a post >> >> Gigabit service... what is capable of taking it off the ONU/CMNT poin= t >> >> in >> >> the home? As usual it's a follow the money question, once RSP's can >> >> deliver >> >> Gbit+ they will need an ecosystem in the home to feed into it, and >> >> right now >> >> there isn't a good technology platform that supports it; >> >> 10GBase-X/10GBaseT >> >> is a non-starter due to the variability in home wiring - arguably the= 7 >> >> year >> >> leap from 100-1000mbit was easy It's mean a gap of 12 years and >> >> counting for >> >> the same.. it's not just the NIC's and CPU's in the gateways it's the >> >> connector and in-home wiring problems as well. >> > >> > >> > As soon as one goes above 1GE, prices increases A LOT on everything >> > involved. I doubt we'll see any 2.5G or higher speed equipment in wide >> > use >> > in home/SME in the next 5 years. >> > >> >> Blatant Plug - request : >> >> I'm interested to hear opinions on this as I have a talk on this very >> >> topic 'The long and Winding Road to 10Gbit+ in the home' >> >> https://linux.conf.au/ at Linuxconf in January. In particular if you >> >> have any home network gore/horror stories and photos you would be >> >> happy for me to include in my talk, please include. >> > >> > >> > I am still waiting for a decently priced 10GE switch. I can get 1GE >> > 24port >> > managed ones, fanless, for 100-200USD. As soon as I go 10GE, price jum= ps >> > up >> > a lot, and I get fans. The NICs aren't widely available, even though >> > they're >> > not the biggest problem. My in-house cabling can do 10GE, but I guess >> > I'm an >> > outlier. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > -- > Best regards / Mvh > Jan Pedro Tumusok > > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >