[Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

[Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

[Tianhe]

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Hi there. I've read some materials from bufferbloat.net and other sites,
trying to understand the problem as best as I can.

And I have a question when reading this:

From
https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/What_can_I_do_about_Bufferbloat/
, it says:

Once you fix it for your own network, it’ll stay fixed for all time, and
> you won’t be subject to changing practices at your ISP or other vendors.
>

What does it mean?

Does it mean that :

if I employ a Smart Queue Management algorithms on my home router, it only
solves the bufferbloat problem between my home devices (desktop, laptop
,cellphone) to my home router. But the buffers between my home router to
upstream devices (my home router  ---> modem ---> ISP routers/switches) ,
buffers between upstream devices, will still harm? So I only fix the
bufferbloat problem on my own local network?

or it mean that employing a Smart Queue Management algorithms on the home
router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: [Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

[David Lang]

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a normal smart queue will solve the problem on any links it's sending to, so it 
will solve the problem on the upstream connection to your ISP.

to address the downstream side, you either need a smart queue on the ISP side, 
or you need to play 'interesting' games with acks to throttle the senders so 
that they don't overwelm the downstream.

cake and some other options do these downtream tricks, but it would be better to 
have a smart queue on the ISP side.

smart queueing only matters on whatever link is the bottleneck, on the other 
links, the queue sizes are zero.

David Lang

  On Tue, 2 Jun 2020, Tianhe wrote:

> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 10:49:15 +0800
> From: Tianhe <ptq008@gmail.com>
> To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: [Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve
>     bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?
> 
> Hi there. I've read some materials from bufferbloat.net and other sites,
> trying to understand the problem as best as I can.
>
> And I have a question when reading this:
>
> From
> https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/What_can_I_do_about_Bufferbloat/
> , it says:
>
> Once you fix it for your own network, it’ll stay fixed for all time, and
>> you won’t be subject to changing practices at your ISP or other vendors.
>>
>
> What does it mean?
>
> Does it mean that :
>
> if I employ a Smart Queue Management algorithms on my home router, it only
> solves the bufferbloat problem between my home devices (desktop, laptop
> ,cellphone) to my home router. But the buffers between my home router to
> upstream devices (my home router  ---> modem ---> ISP routers/switches) ,
> buffers between upstream devices, will still harm? So I only fix the
> bufferbloat problem on my own local network?
>
> or it mean that employing a Smart Queue Management algorithms on the home
> router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

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Re: [Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020, Tianhe wrote:

> What does it mean?

What I do is that on my WAN, I do bidirectional shaping/AQM at 90% of the 
ISP configured rate, meaning buffering will generally be done in my device 
instead of the ISP device, and my device has proper AQM so I have no 
bufferbloat.

This is not perfect but it works well enough to make a big difference for 
all normal use-cases.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se

Re: [Bloat] Does employing a AQM on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?

[Dave Taht]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 7:49 PM Tianhe <ptq008@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there. I've read some materials from bufferbloat.net and other sites, trying to understand the problem as best as I can.
>
> And I have a question when reading this:
>
> From https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/What_can_I_do_about_Bufferbloat/ , it says:
>
>> Once you fix it for your own network, it’ll stay fixed for all time, and you won’t be subject to changing practices at your ISP or other vendors.

Well, we should be less optimistic about "all time", nowadays, as
cable ISPs are adding oracles to dynamically change the amount of
bandwidth
you are configured as they overload individual segments. Evenroute is
monitoring "sag" which seems to happen on many dsl
backhauls.

>
> What does it mean?
>
> Does it mean that :
>
> if I employ a Smart Queue Management algorithms on my home router, it only solves the bufferbloat problem between my home devices (desktop, laptop ,cellphone) to my home router. But the buffers between my home router to upstream devices (my home router  ---> modem ---> ISP routers/switches) , buffers between upstream devices, will still harm? So I only fix the bufferbloat problem on my own local network?
>
> or it mean that employing a Smart Queue Management algorithms on the home router also solve bufferbloat between home router and upstream devices?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



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