From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x229.google.com (mail-oi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE0ED3B29E for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 12:28:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id m11-v6so23336847oic.2 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:28:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2PIzxPf1Fon8VLs3WWxZlG5DFRteTHLZExCbcM4tcCA=; b=UQ3MDnTHouHCXmBhUQaksYPJS4+KePO+ERYAYSr+0BIBHNJxCox2Pp4Ng4fegzcH5g Ao2pEjOVi8B6BDHvQ/yHoGjqmwW6N9yvbm82GxGcHtZypCsCxajKWCOvRl5uhhCql4zz hNpA9hf+Gyj9EHlIdGyTiOXiWjNv2pdrZKk98afOk2aaF3mwPtpz4qOHQZO+iJ2IBuwL p+Pk4sZHmOJPxYjgvxjK0mM8+FDj2wJ55g7Sco7fVlPkyEstRQZdz2tKz7x0YA+2wNQz XXsNtCXF6Asw4ZvMpqN2Yb/LOIbnMAYyDDczEo7Ict4uWtKtRFmp1rm88tr17+xZvd0S QSnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2PIzxPf1Fon8VLs3WWxZlG5DFRteTHLZExCbcM4tcCA=; b=d35ISolKCJuxcc+Ec+aucq25xgkH0ffTC7l/RN3HlVCEj8cik6gszciVzfj4wg2320 hNyUeG/KsbXYwPW9FfWagUSXnn+W7zKSKnPwBFxxKykm+y4SrV6+Q96Y3o8n154Gfgku juNf/nO68Sg0vs1atKYWIEAsqlbHNe5NZS4fjDbM9IE/o/KDCoVmmM/e4IC3G6Oj3U6A imyp+bmigXWnlSGnV8Y+2LIVnRsTMp8n3170+qxR6zqGLTl8NAYaYw4JHB7u3hBSD5G9 JKFgDLyhng1/LpX0YhPGuQVvTj2LA5QAs/xl7wj8apSJNJZIYwQ5Ldu6c+Kfs8CVtctq hWvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BMnFtW8V6ll22G1Dl6elpWFVxEpxlPG2/r1ykNonuHZxulcgyP GelbwUoEbCBGls2JCqzTVIQcuiTaAycVEiipcuM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYl5VhzKp8bIBKCnq6Ejm9AwoRY5/2gKLvzN4/wItxikJX13h/qswx4VhKgd7TkHSg/eK4DVYggJwTLme5oLXw= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e510:: with SMTP id c16-v6mr9893700oih.44.1535300918112; Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:28:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66e2374b-f998-b132-410e-46c9089bb06b@gmail.com> <360212B1-8411-4ED0-877A-92E59070F518@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Rosen Penev Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 09:28:30 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Marvell 385 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:28:38 -0000 On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 9:29 PM Dave Taht wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 8:32 AM Mikael Abrahamsson wro= te: > > > > On Thu, 23 Aug 2018, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > > > > > router should be able to handle at least the sold plan's bandwidth wi= th > > > its main CPU...) > > > > There is exactly one SoC on the market that does this, and that's Marve= ll > > Armada 385, and it hasn't been very successful when it comes to ending = up > > in these kinds of devices. It's mostly ended up in NASes and devices su= ch > > as WRT1200AC, WRT1900ACS, WRT3200AC. > > I just pulled two of those out of my junk drawer. (bricked presently). > It looks like we > can't apply fq_codel for wifi to it (big binary blob), still. Yeah it's junk. While still developed, it has outstanding issues that have not been fixed in a long time. An example, monitor mode does not show data packets. Packet injection still works though. > > The firmware interface code is pretty clean though. > > https://github.com/kaloz/mwlwifi > > I rather liked the 385 chip myself, but wifi... can't fix, going back > in junk drawer > unless someone wants one. > > The expressobin is a Marvell Armada "3700LP (88F3720) dual core ARM > Cortex A53 processor up to 1.2GHz" - how does that compare? I have > plenty of ath10k and ath9k pcmcia cards.... > > > > > > Sure doing less/ a half asses job is less costly than doing it > > > right, but in the extreme not doing the job at all saves even more > > > energy ;). And I am not sure we are barking up the right tree here, i= t > > > is not that all home CPE are rigorously optimized for low power and > > > energy saving... my gut feeling is that the only optimizing principle= is > > > cost for the manufacturer/OEM and that causes underpowered CPU that a= re > > > packet-accerlerated"-doped to appear to be able to do their job. I mi= ght > > > be wrong though, as I have ISP internal numbers on this issue. > > > > The CPU power and RAM/flash has crept up a lot in the past 5 years beca= use > > other requirements in having the HGW support other applications than ju= st > > being a very simple NAT44+wifi router. > > > > Cost is definitely an optimization, and when you're expected to have a > > price-to-customer including software in the 20-40 EUR/device range, the= n > > the SoC can't cost much. There has also been a lot of vendor lock-in. > > > > But now speeds are creeping up even more, we're now seeing 2.5GE and 10= GE > > platforms, which require substantial CPU power to do forwarding. The Li= nux > > kernel is now becoming the bottleneck in the forwarding, not even on a > > 3GHz Intel CPU is it possible to forward even 10GE using the normal Lin= ux > > kernel path (my guess right now is that this is due to context switchin= g > > etc, not really CPU performance). > > > > Marvell has been the only one to really aim for lots of CPU performance= in > > their SoC, there might be others now going the same path but it's also = a > > downside if the CPU becomes bogged down with packet forwarding when it'= s > > also expected to perform other tasks on behalf of the user (and ISP). > > > > -- > > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > CEO, TekLibre, LLC > http://www.teklibre.com > Tel: 1-669-226-2619 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat