From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8145F3B2A4 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id l18so15298869edc.9 for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7//SqpTpZKwXuktDpQdRM9zbt/ItEzX8FtHGqvzzPvg=; b=vHaJPr1J/zsk6/caiBl2la8yr2pk5ys+hUstbZUNflqnTpVXYNwnGsiKpJGXqzbpl5 MqMYp5Wk7jBBtynk1zHy+HiEvzO0k2i79UHMwzjTMhpahtUL7VRb0fwLyjD28eHCoJCf bA4b1kHVM4CDMbBcPWGkc3UaIFWr3vriiVyz3eCeZP6MHoUfdA3++8Cz5L+rUCKYOnoY n6vBNFw02FWeUS2SL9lxu2YyLl6QEv2yw8igWMVA6iTRvnEGnj4Mb/cvdFJcS+C3LDl4 RJKxEhQAGLep0c7iry+Z4ZplXq1DlrcYKklhLYZERpVwcLWQH+MdX3YjVvrr/SYJg4Z0 4UEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7//SqpTpZKwXuktDpQdRM9zbt/ItEzX8FtHGqvzzPvg=; b=SplQvnnZNr1ewUxpqsOYqhzkjerJ6ys65IQBXLdElaKcTi2m2wGv8D6Y0FehP5UyQ+ 5jNqXLWfhLPpSCgVnyLN9HtNbPrOW5jVhKLSE/vm6phAiZl+SV/iWDW6xnoOp04w4Y1y cuYMJf2XVBcvHgEd1jpUaXpYYV7QgtBLtDO1GpyfY5lnX415YbtO0xEA59Y+A2IEBDwz lrvVlbbCn6kzBLv5q/IekjKpSxZpjyM5wzgXpKA7dP7YhHq+8xNSr3fcBCAFdggsb7Pa T2d5olh05AUkMuLam1vDe5lOnKNrw7o9ajxOlO68jwyngdewwB+/8fXYQIYrj3Pow+cZ wwLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533UNBeaGt6qBF9arsWXsHLR9YEY8m8ShJUCR4W/ULNrtYpaLi90 f0EkNroBKFx+WkRtWmuyKmQxWLRlc0v4aDBJVVM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwmELvnZ2DmfxIz9qy2O5+dRAKy/EMQPt1a9vujCE3xHW4gDpdQjY6l7v6TeJBJ4u1J2MBRV5NDrdnmafYZuO0= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:df84:: with SMTP id b4mr29663400edy.240.1617042598462; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87pmzla3vw.fsf@toke.dk> In-Reply-To: From: Aaron Wood Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:29:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: "Klatsky, Carl" , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab083c05beb1119b" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Netperf re-licensed as MIT X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:29:59 -0000 --000000000000ab083c05beb1119b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of my long concerns with the RRUL test is that the ICMP ping test portion is not isochronous, and runs at a variable rate based on rtt, which means that it uses more/less bandwidth as an inverse function of rtt, and that makes it harder to compare the actual goodput of the tcp streams running in parallel. (When the top-line total bw goes down when latency goes down, because the icmp and udp ping tests are using more bandwidth that isn=E2=80=99t accounted for in the bw totals) On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:45 PM Dave Taht wrote: > most of the latency related portions of flent use irtt, which I think > is a lot more solid than anything else. > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:44 PM Dave Taht wrote: > > > > so glad to hear the license has been fixed. > > > > carl, iperf is only used in a few of flent's tests. We trusted netperf > > - as did the linux kernel developers - a lot further than all the > > iperf variants combined - at the time we started work on flent. > > > > I would not mind us somehow developing a drop in replacement for > > netperf, perhaps leveraging the irtt codebase, as I have a long > > standing desire to be able to reliably measure latencies and the > > output of TCP_INFO in "some" tool below 250us. > > > > iperf has come a long way, but getting to where I could trust the > > largely "academic" codebase it was would take a ton of benchmarking. > > > > On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:09 PM Klatsky, Carl via Bloat > > wrote: > > > > > > Toke, > > > > > > How you see this coming into Flent? My understanding is that for > latency & load test like RRUL: > > > > > > -iperf provides the bandwidth portion > > > -IRTT provides the latency portion, and if IRTT is not found, the tes= t > falls back to ICMP for the latency check > > > > > > Would netperf replace iperf for the bandwidth portion? Do you see it > being used for the latency portion? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Carl > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bloat On Behalf Of Toke > H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen via Bloat > > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:32 PM > > > To: bloat > > > Subject: [Bloat] Netperf re-licensed as MIT > > > > > > Hopefully this means we can get it packaged for the distros that have > thus far refused to because of the license - i.e., Debian and Fedora! > > > > > > -Toke > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bloat mailing list > > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat_= _;!!CQl3mcHX2A!W_yWwnGSD6VuZvpn0BPv7Ta9GBP3f2dRWeJHPLS7RrrpBZ5gpyj5DZGnRYIf= WVR5TXjR$ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bloat mailing list > > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > > > > > > > -- > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public > > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman > > > > dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729 > > > > -- > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman > > dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --=20 - Sent from my iPhone. --000000000000ab083c05beb1119b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of my long concerns with the RRUL test is that the IC= MP ping test portion is not isochronous, and runs at a variable rate based = on rtt, which means that it uses more/less bandwidth as an inverse function= of rtt, and that makes it harder to compare the actual goodput of the tcp = streams running in parallel. =C2=A0(When the top-line total bw goes down wh= en latency goes down, because the icmp and udp ping tests are using more ba= ndwidth that isn=E2=80=99t accounted for in the bw totals)

On Sat, Mar = 27, 2021 at 2:45 PM Dave Taht <da= ve.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
mo= st of the latency related portions of flent use irtt, which I think
is a lot more solid than anything else.

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:44 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> so glad to hear the license has been fixed.
>
> carl, iperf is only used in a few of flent's tests. We trusted net= perf
> - as did the linux kernel developers - a lot further than all the
> iperf variants combined - at the time we started work on flent.
>
> I would not mind us somehow developing a drop in replacement for
> netperf, perhaps leveraging the irtt codebase, as I have a long
> standing desire to be able to reliably measure latencies and the
> output of TCP_INFO in "some" tool below 250us.
>
> iperf has come a long way, but getting to where I could trust the
> largely "academic" codebase it was would take a ton of bench= marking.
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:09 PM Klatsky, Carl via Bloat
> <b= loat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Toke,
> >
> > How you see this coming into Flent?=C2=A0 My understanding is tha= t for latency & load test like RRUL:
> >
> > -iperf provides the bandwidth portion
> > -IRTT provides the latency portion, and if IRTT is not found, the= test falls back to ICMP for the latency check
> >
> > Would netperf replace iperf for the bandwidth portion?=C2=A0 Do y= ou see it being used for the latency portion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Carl
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bloat <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Beha= lf Of Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen via Bloat
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:32 PM
> > To: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Subject: [Bloat] Netperf re-licensed as MIT
> >
> > Hopefully this means we can get it packaged for the distros that = have thus far refused to because of the license - i.e., Debian and Fedora!<= br> > >
> > -Toke
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bloat mailing list
> > = Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://= urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mc= HX2A!W_yWwnGSD6VuZvpn0BPv7Ta9GBP3f2dRWeJHPLS7RrrpBZ5gpyj5DZGnRYIfWVR5TXjR$<= /a>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bloat mailing list
> >
= Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>
>
>
> --
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over p= ublic
> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman<= br> >
>
dave@taht.net &= lt;Dave T=C3=A4ht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729



--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public=
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave@taht.net <Da= ve T=C3=A4ht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@list= s.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
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- Sent from my iPhone.
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