[Bloat] New board that looks interesting

[Bloat] New board that looks interesting

[Aaron Wood]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 296 bytes --]

https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html

quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
8GB Ram
2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
intel built-in graphics
onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
m.2 and PCIe adapters
<$200

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 558 bytes --]

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[David P. Reed]

Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560 capabilities regarding AQM?

On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com> said:

> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
> 
> quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
> 8GB Ram
> 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
> intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
> intel built-in graphics
> onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
> m.2 and PCIe adapters
> <$200
> 

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[Dave Taht]

Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
perform.

The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
(the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
sent timestamp.

All the other features look rather nice on this board.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560 capabilities regarding AQM?
>
> On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com> said:
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cake mailing list
> > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
> >
> > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
> > 8GB Ram
> > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
> > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
> > intel built-in graphics
> > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
> > m.2 and PCIe adapters
> > <$200
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



-- 
Make Music, Not War

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-435-0729

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[Aaron Wood]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2463 bytes --]

The comparison of chipset performance link (to OpemWRT forums) that went
out had this chip, the J4105 as the fastest.  Able to do a gigabit with
cake (nearly able to do it in both directions).

I think this has replaced the apu2 as the board I’m going with as my edge
router.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
> a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
> perform.
>
> The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
> been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
> would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
> (the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
> remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
> lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
> a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
> an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
> sent timestamp.
>
> All the other features look rather nice on this board.
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does
> rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really
> useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560
> capabilities regarding AQM?
> >
> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com>
> said:
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cake mailing list
> > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> > > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
> > >
> > > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
> > > 8GB Ram
> > > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
> > > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
> > > intel built-in graphics
> > > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
> > > m.2 and PCIe adapters
> > > <$200
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bloat mailing list
> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>
>
>
> --
> Make Music, Not War
>
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>
-- 
- Sent from my iPhone.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3753 bytes --]

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[Dave Taht]

I think I'll wait for y'all to try it and report back. I trust my
apu2s and I actually kind of like they lack a graphics chip and need
to be configured via serial port.

In other news I've started testing ubuntu 20.4, which among other
things, has wireguard in it. I've been really frustrated with the
state of distributions lately, trying to get any complex thing done
has required snaps and docker containers and I really prefer running
stuff natively when possible. Tools that I still rely on like mrtg and
smokeping are undermaintained, trying to get zoneminder to co-exist
and co-install with anything else (notably jitsi thus far) has been a
real PITA.

I am pleased at the increasing size of the ipv6 deployment, my phone
got it last month....

I think I've found a babel bug with default routes...

and I fired up a kernel build to go hack on the ax200 chips.

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:27 AM Aaron Wood <woody77@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The comparison of chipset performance link (to OpemWRT forums) that went out had this chip, the J4105 as the fastest.  Able to do a gigabit with cake (nearly able to do it in both directions).
>
> I think this has replaced the apu2 as the board I’m going with as my edge router.
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
>> a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
>> perform.
>>
>> The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
>> been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
>> would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
>> (the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
>> remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
>> lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
>> a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
>> an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
>> sent timestamp.
>>
>> All the other features look rather nice on this board.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560 capabilities regarding AQM?
>> >
>> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com> said:
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Cake mailing list
>> > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>> > > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
>> > >
>> > > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
>> > > 8GB Ram
>> > > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
>> > > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
>> > > intel built-in graphics
>> > > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
>> > > m.2 and PCIe adapters
>> > > <$200
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bloat mailing list
>> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Make Music, Not War
>>
>> Dave Täht
>> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
>> http://www.teklibre.com
>> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>
> --
> - Sent from my iPhone.



-- 
Make Music, Not War

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-435-0729

[Bloat] Offtopic to: New board that looks interesting

[Dave Collier-Brown]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2272 bytes --]

On 2020-04-04 1:36 p.m., Dave Taht wrote:

 I've been really frustrated with the
state of distributions lately, trying to get any complex thing done
has required snaps and docker containers and I really prefer running
stuff natively when possible.



Various language development groups have run into the problem characterized by Russ Cox as, “Dependency hell is NP-complete. But maybe we can climb out.”

So they try to make it possible to run a sat solver, find an example for a single instance of a program, and seal that program hermetically away from every other system on the machine.

This make integrating anything with the program an exercise in tearing through the bubble, inserting your program, re-solving the dependency problem and re-sealing them two of up again.

--dave

[It's a solved problem, but since it was Not Invented Here, it has been dis-solved. https://leaflessca.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/dll-hell-and-avoiding-an-np-complete-problem/ ]
<https://leaflessca.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/dll-hell-and-avoiding-an-np-complete-problem/>

--
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com<mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com> |              -- Mark Twain



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an authorized signatory.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2877 bytes --]

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[David P. Reed]

FYI - Fedora 31 continued not trying to "make my life easier" by inventing new packaging and containerization in the base distro. I think the folks who make Ubuntu think it is a consumer product.  Making it harder to self-configure in developer-hacker friendly ways.

I expect Fedora32 will have Wireguard (if not earlier).

On Saturday, April 4, 2020 1:36pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:

> I think I'll wait for y'all to try it and report back. I trust my
> apu2s and I actually kind of like they lack a graphics chip and need
> to be configured via serial port.
> 
> In other news I've started testing ubuntu 20.4, which among other
> things, has wireguard in it. I've been really frustrated with the
> state of distributions lately, trying to get any complex thing done
> has required snaps and docker containers and I really prefer running
> stuff natively when possible. Tools that I still rely on like mrtg and
> smokeping are undermaintained, trying to get zoneminder to co-exist
> and co-install with anything else (notably jitsi thus far) has been a
> real PITA.
> 
> I am pleased at the increasing size of the ipv6 deployment, my phone
> got it last month....
> 
> I think I've found a babel bug with default routes...
> 
> and I fired up a kernel build to go hack on the ax200 chips.
> 
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:27 AM Aaron Wood <woody77@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The comparison of chipset performance link (to OpemWRT forums) that went out had
>> this chip, the J4105 as the fastest.  Able to do a gigabit with cake (nearly able
>> to do it in both directions).
>>
>> I think this has replaced the apu2 as the board I’m going with as my edge
>> router.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
>>> a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
>>> perform.
>>>
>>> The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
>>> been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
>>> would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
>>> (the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
>>> remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
>>> lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
>>> a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
>>> an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
>>> sent timestamp.
>>>
>>> All the other features look rather nice on this board.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does rather
>>> neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really useful.
>>> What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560 capabilities
>>> regarding AQM?
>>> >
>>> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com> said:
>>> >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Cake mailing list
>>> > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>> > > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
>>> > >
>>> > > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
>>> > > 8GB Ram
>>> > > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
>>> > > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
>>> > > intel built-in graphics
>>> > > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
>>> > > m.2 and PCIe adapters
>>> > > <$200
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Bloat mailing list
>>> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Make Music, Not War
>>>
>>> Dave Täht
>>> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
>>> http://www.teklibre.com
>>> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>>
>> --
>> - Sent from my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Make Music, Not War
> 
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> 

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[Dave Taht]

anyone got around to hacking on this board yet?

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:27 AM Aaron Wood <woody77@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The comparison of chipset performance link (to OpemWRT forums) that went out had this chip, the J4105 as the fastest.  Able to do a gigabit with cake (nearly able to do it in both directions).
>
> I think this has replaced the apu2 as the board I’m going with as my edge router.
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
>> a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
>> perform.
>>
>> The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
>> been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
>> would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
>> (the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
>> remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
>> lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
>> a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
>> an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
>> sent timestamp.
>>
>> All the other features look rather nice on this board.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560 capabilities regarding AQM?
>> >
>> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com> said:
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Cake mailing list
>> > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>> > > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
>> > >
>> > > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
>> > > 8GB Ram
>> > > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
>> > > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
>> > > intel built-in graphics
>> > > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
>> > > m.2 and PCIe adapters
>> > > <$200
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bloat mailing list
>> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Make Music, Not War
>>
>> Dave Täht
>> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
>> http://www.teklibre.com
>> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>
> --
> - Sent from my iPhone.



-- 
Make Music, Not War

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-435-0729

Re: [Bloat] [Cake] New board that looks interesting

[Aaron Wood]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5526 bytes --]

I have, finally.  It's been running for a week or so, now.

OpenWRT was an _adventure_.  The board is UEFI, not standard bios.  And
while it will merrily boot OpenWRT's non-uefi images off of USB, it won't
boot the non-UEFI setup from the internal storage (I'm using the eMMC).  So
_that_ was fun (and I made some dumb mistakes that were especially fun to
correct.

But it's running OpenWRT 19.07 (and a UEFI bootloader before grub that's
from ToT OpenWRT).

Anyway, I have cake running, 950Mbps ingress and 35Mbps egress (modem is
provisioned at 1.3G ingress, and a bit over 35Mbps egress).  fq_codel was
defaulted, in multi-queue mode.  While I'm using cake on ingress, my local
link hasn't been hitting the limiter very often:

                Tin 0
  thresh        950Mbit
  target          1.5ms
  interval       30.0ms
  pk_delay         22us
  av_delay          9us
  sp_delay          2us
  backlog            0b
  pkts        243608193
  bytes    250748364896
  way_inds     13167720
  way_miss      1245030
  way_cols            0
  drops            1075
  marks             101
  ack_drop            0
  sp_flows            0
  bk_flows            1
  un_flows            0
  max_len         69876
  quantum          1514

Given that most of the hosts that I interact with are only about 10-15ms
away, I'm probably going to change the interval target to better match that.

Interestingly, while it has a pair of multiqueue NICs (i211s), the igbe
driver isn't configuring them for RSS.  Both output queues are being used,
but not the ingress queues:

wan interface:
     tx_queue_0_packets: 56635989
     tx_queue_1_packets: 39777210
     rx_queue_0_packets: 243646072
     rx_queue_1_packets: 0

lan interface:
     tx_queue_0_packets: 85047897
     tx_queue_1_packets: 162004500
     rx_queue_0_packets: 111174855
     rx_queue_1_packets: 0

Since I have housemates that don't appreciate me messing with the network
during their meetings, I haven't gotten around to poking more deeply at
that (or at experimenting with running cake on two ingress queues).

That being said, I bench-tested this before I put it into operation and was
able to see 940Mbps of iperf goodput through cake and NAT...  Took all of a
core, though (and that core was still cold and therefore potentially able
to boost to 2.5GHz).  I haven't determined how long it will take to
thermally throttle, and if bandwidth suffers as a result.

Pretty happy with it so far, though.

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 7:46 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> anyone got around to hacking on this board yet?
>
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:27 AM Aaron Wood <woody77@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The comparison of chipset performance link (to OpemWRT forums) that went
> out had this chip, the J4105 as the fastest.  Able to do a gigabit with
> cake (nearly able to do it in both directions).
> >
> > I think this has replaced the apu2 as the board I’m going with as my
> edge router.
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Historically I've found the "Celeron" chips rather weak, but it's just
> >> a brand. I haven't the foggiest idea how well this variant will
> >> perform.
> >>
> >> The intel ethernet chips are best of breed in linux, however. It's
> >> been my hope that the 211 variant with the timed networking support
> >> would show up in the field (sch_etx) so we could fiddle with that,
> >> (the apu2s aren't using that version) but I cannot for the life of me
> >> remember the right keywords to look it up at the moment. this feature
> >> lets you program when a packet emerges from the driver and is sort of
> >> a whole new ballgame when it comes to scheduling - there hasn't been
> >> an aqm designed for it, and you can do fq by playing tricks with the
> >> sent timestamp.
> >>
> >> All the other features look rather nice on this board.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 7:47 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Thanks! I ordered one just now. In my experience, this company does
> rather neat stuff. Their XMOS based microphone array (ReSpeaker) is really
> useful. What's the state of play in Linux/OpenWRT for Intel 9560
> capabilities regarding AQM?
> >> >
> >> > On Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:12am, "Aaron Wood" <woody77@gmail.com>
> said:
> >> >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Cake mailing list
> >> > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> >> > > https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105800-p-4445.html
> >> > >
> >> > > quad-core Celeron J4105 1.5-2.5 GHz x64
> >> > > 8GB Ram
> >> > > 2x i211t intel ethernet controllers
> >> > > intel 9560 802.11ac (wave2) wifi/bluetooth chipset
> >> > > intel built-in graphics
> >> > > onboard ARM Cortex-M0 and RPi & Arduino headers
> >> > > m.2 and PCIe adapters
> >> > > <$200
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Bloat mailing list
> >> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Make Music, Not War
> >>
> >> Dave Täht
> >> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> >> http://www.teklibre.com
> >> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> >
> > --
> > - Sent from my iPhone.
>
>
>
> --
> Make Music, Not War
>
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-435-0729
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 8094 bytes --]