From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ua0-x242.google.com (mail-ua0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E5243B2AE for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2016 10:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x242.google.com with SMTP id 51so3589791uac.3 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:16:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uLmKbH1fHVCuM1cggn25hLMmR5BBKCiy1QweBq4BCzs=; b=KpNELpoIYughB2MQS89KYMjAXAZ4WqM7e2ntIBTOHcZxId7QceiF8BXZ0p3gLNrTYp Om9SfZLeCE0QkBoNm408GIlBuV5dRsgBolxVfWFqdKvwI7vfK3e2TNeWH9O5AiWJfvkB uFlrf4GnDiqG50MUJnmDV6ct76ayRMFribh+AGegYpG7vbT3ArSyp4biryN6siL72Zlw PSSikZiOdu6v4H+Ozy3Ew7hKMG5ErrcA1iC/2BGixZj2R9bFWPEgp2qC9uord4EES91w QlSkixPvJRSnDBEJvpdY4kXJnFZqKV4uJ4XQitNcgSgWb17IXBSd7O9Spq6+CJvOhfkH 1QOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uLmKbH1fHVCuM1cggn25hLMmR5BBKCiy1QweBq4BCzs=; b=eHDwY9o8KafcYpKfkXKJXJNJ6IcGfpFKhU08ejCAA8ATHWc6ywu/RSCQe8dZmsSjem aEA5bQbSw3dW8oVUIjUuhLbrsm0+oh9/6Lyp1UsE22lJljNtP4lrIC4TEv4UqdONYwg6 K6nMcbF3hIbXRDXE+f7T+HfGxlT4pz8df3iicpQakqD1J4yNRM9O/yqEoUWGT+cZPms2 McZHjW0P5jraH/9pRkHtONvx9i1uKLdOx8TmpIRURDNtV9d87CL8tVi2vsZubEkMJZk7 npMpr6KQARQEHyZ985xcTfg7+3iMjIkUS/G5Wcau070rox9xHksGCaQM6n8A0XSl+pWD ex3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlsaOHgOHQD5Cf7bj8Nlz/vJxcnVZk3STIF/U68eu+wWYqR3wp4BHH2F1pAft1iktyu8ddk76Awo//BWA== X-Received: by 10.176.84.149 with SMTP id p21mr5289311uaa.42.1475244986692; Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:16:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.117.214 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:16:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20160916211120.GA38308@sesse.net> From: Aaron Wood Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:16:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c1b074e637bb7053dba3da3 Subject: Re: [Bloat] "BBR" TCP patches submitted to linux kernel X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 14:16:27 -0000 --94eb2c1b074e637bb7053dba3da3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 1:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Thu, 29 Sep 2016, Aaron Wood wrote: > > While you think 3.10 is old, in my experience it's still seen as cutting >> edge by many. RHEL is still only at 3.10. And routers are using much >> older 3.x kernels. There's a huge lag between what the "enterprise" crowd >> is running in production, and what you guys are developing on. Because >> "stability". >> >> It's been one of my major frustrations (especially on the embedded side >> where 3.x kernels are still considered 'new' and 2.6.x is 'trusted'). >> > > State of affairs are actually improving. What I'm seeing from several SoC > vendors is that they're moving from a "new kernel every 3 years, and we'll > choose a 2 year old kernel when doing the work so it'll be 5 years old by > the time a new one comes around, with the result that a lot of devices are > on 2.6.26, 3.2 and 3.4), to a model where they actually do a new kernel > every 6 months, and they'll choose a kernel that's around 12-18 months old > at that time. > > This is of course not great, but it's an improvement. I'm pushing for SoC > vendors to actually upstream their patches as much as possible and support > creation of kernel version independent HAL/API in the kernel that they can > write their drivers for. > It's a great improvement over where things were. I hope it continues. I know I'll be supporting it professionally when I can. -Aaron --94eb2c1b074e637bb7053dba3da3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 1:12 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmik= e@swm.pp.se> wrote:
On Thu, 29= Sep 2016, Aaron Wood wrote:

While you think 3.10 is old, in my experience it's still seen as cuttin= g edge by many.=C2=A0 RHEL is still only at 3.10.=C2=A0 And routers are usi= ng much older 3.x kernels.=C2=A0 There's a huge lag between what the &q= uot;enterprise" crowd is running in production, and what you guys are = developing on. Because "stability".

It's been one of my major frustrations (especially on the embedded side= where 3.x kernels are still considered 'new' and 2.6.x is 'tru= sted').

 State of affairs are actually improving. What I'm seeing from several S= oC vendors is that they're moving from a "new kernel every 3 years= , and we'll choose a 2 year old kernel when doing the work so it'll= be 5 years old by the time a new one comes around, with the result that a = lot of devices are on 2.6.26, 3.2 and 3.4), to a model where they actually = do a new kernel every 6 months, and they'll choose a kernel that's = around 12-18 months old at that time.

This is of course not great, but it's an improvement. I'm pushing f= or SoC vendors to actually upstream their patches as much as possible and s= upport creation of kernel version independent HAL/API in the kernel that th= ey can write their drivers for.

It'= s a great improvement over where things were.=C2=A0 I hope it continues.=C2= =A0 I know I'll be supporting it professionally when I can.
<= br>
-Aaron=C2=A0
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