From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9140E3B29E for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 12:18:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id y22so8960393edv.1 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:18:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mTpSjsrdbHGs5Mwc0930FW4KA1hZ8fDLqWs2VymxQ/Q=; b=RDHXmbrQMWWEAfcd/Tzxj5/bZCwXllSG5D05kacWhBCKnnUh/Jz7/lUx8M6VVOeeWP Sdox/ducMVmq4St7h6RkryGCbhpvoH/yXj8mKiiQ5UNV1HmAwai6+QEFZg6twErlHVZP apOjO/KatVahhghAO/NTkIz1YCteOH2Xb1Z/f4qUCKYKWECMLKZyWHSUivL7Dzh/72+p AMdWP8g0zFrrvHAGisJEKen7ZMemMfyecUFmXf7uuE9mH6dQUwGxQCX7rXGs/6rkXX9y BHazlWVh/YXMX2rOzAo2kGwPz+eiBEJDu4EF5PKn1Q8YdZzI4JR+J60AAnsccgC0EumG 2k5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mTpSjsrdbHGs5Mwc0930FW4KA1hZ8fDLqWs2VymxQ/Q=; b=phYpSc6XGGpw7Vzo479ErgIV3WMhasWwMZsVNuM1/e+BqqlCdI2jDlCPgeokuDCBEA nMn7zuVf++X9c2tLV276E2RcAm9KLHO6ZRnNHF1gpy9Jt5b8P9tuXfsPEoSJdTRaxZKm XKFXjWRIMzjxep+XUdke3kQVGSDJArSTKcR0wGn66OYzeTZ8DD+rMS9akTnHBHBjvmRw TGQc0qQnr/c4YoJeFYJKwi1xE388MlvSzx+sxuozdL05UgJVxh9yOf5m6pHF5rvGx0/Z k835e7HA3NegGe9aAN8NUvay2Ku4SQeluwCpzwzZXYHWhY+M5xGJEFwl5HHdlPa4FMQB na1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309QfTpkDItJ5tpJ0+hkvrcATpsqHuPWGdtCuyY7a391hvtPM8s UBDvSeZfW/lDrkvZdqP/SiRZV4YYRMs83DYzIt0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw57J1IaU0kjVTrVr2nw28vwecCzn/AaqmthfKTyeg3eQ1muFlIMPz6GvPfpBF9Zd6k8S0jWBrufPjCVBu1lOk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1d9a:: with SMTP id dk26mr5100074edb.283.1606756712573; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:18:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1605540351240.98589@telenor.com> <1605607524611.20916@telenor.com> <20201117160744.395f108e@carbon> <1605772623976.41134@telenor.com> <1605796526806.72220@telenor.com> <20201120121027.2a61b319@carbon> <877dqgrygo.fsf@toke.dk> <1606136220411.40216@telenor.com> In-Reply-To: <1606136220411.40216@telenor.com> From: Aaron Wood Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:18:21 -0800 Message-ID: To: erik.taraldsen@telenor.com Cc: =?UTF-8?B?VG9rZSBIw7hpbGFuZC1Kw7hyZ2Vuc2Vu?= , brouer@redhat.com, lumuscar@cisco.com, priyarjha@google.com, marek@cloudflare.com, bloat , colrack@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000017efe305b55633ef" Subject: Re: [Bloat] BBR implementations, knobs to turn? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:18:33 -0000 --00000000000017efe305b55633ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The CPE side has met willingness to investigate these issues from early > on, but it seems that buffer handling is much harder on CPE chipsets > than on base station chipsets. In particular on 5G. We have had some > very good results on 4G, but they do not translate to 5G. > My own experience with various CPE work (working with ODMs to get hardware built) is that those building CPE are stuck with what the silicon vendors will support, much like where we currently are with home routers. The AP firmware and drivers have bloated buffers and there's very little that can be done to change that. The large OEMs (the very large, well-known, retail brands) have the volume to put pressure on the silicon vendors to fix this. But there's not much incentive for a silicon vendor to address this issue for a smaller customer. --00000000000017efe305b55633ef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The CPE side h= as met willingness to investigate these issues from early
on, but it seems that buffer handling is much harder on CPE chipsets
than on base station chipsets.=C2=A0 In particular on 5G.=C2=A0 We have had= some
very good results on 4G, but they do not translate to 5G.
<= div>
My own experience with various CPE work (working with OD= Ms to get hardware built) is that those building CPE are stuck with what th= e silicon vendors will support, much like where we currently are with home = routers.=C2=A0 The AP firmware and drivers have bloated buffers and there&#= 39;s very little that can be done to change that.

= The large OEMs (the very large, well-known, retail brands) have the volume = to put pressure on the silicon vendors to fix this.=C2=A0 But there's n= ot much incentive for a silicon vendor to address this issue for a smaller = customer.
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