From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.38.55]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 96A7521F107 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2045 invoked by uid 0); 17 Mar 2013 20:54:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host291.hostmonster.com) (74.220.215.91) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2013 20:54:26 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=avanw.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version; bh=PTblWLt7jIlhTJHfBpuY0/CUvztroOqHEb1mqnZ4Lq4=; b=Ey4KqmQjKui7nEb15ycXbCz+rJRfK7SBas3X9kFSNHanpUMTodLTWdhZECUKIx4UFzOe7nvOi5GrCiE4XxIsoJ+xD4VvTRoBrydaPzjqj3rxU/szgaSGK/WTqPBRswc+; Received: from [209.85.223.169] (port=61642 helo=mail-ie0-f169.google.com) by host291.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UHKb4-00014B-Gf for bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:54:26 -0600 Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 13so6356914iea.28 for ; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.34.231 with SMTP id c7mr8738769igj.95.1363553665731; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.183.163 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Mar 2013 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:54:25 -0600 Message-ID: From: Kevin Gross To: bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9340eebe0d79204d82513d3 X-Identified-User: {1416:host291.hostmonster.com:avanwcom:avanw.com} {sentby:smtp auth 209.85.223.169 authed with kevin.gross@avanw.com} Subject: Re: [Bloat] Replacing the "RED Manifesto" with an "AQM manifesto" in the IETF X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 20:54:52 -0000 --14dae9340eebe0d79204d82513d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Speaking of many problems yet to solve, another IETF group bufferbloat people may be interested in is RMCAT - RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques Charter - http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/rmcat/charter/ Join mailing list - https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat Kevin Gross +1-303-447-0517 Media Network Consultant AVA Networks - www.AVAnw.com , www.X192.org On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Jim Gettys wrote: > The ICCRG meeting at last week's IETF went very well, as did a variety of > live demos of fq_codel. > > You can find the ICCRG slide sets here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/86/materials.html > > and, though the sessions were not video'ed by the IETF, Dave and I used > our phones and may put some low quality video up later. > > See: http://www.ietf.org/blog/ > > and > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/A1seNKANmDg > > My great thanks to Dave Taht and Comcast to pull off a live demo of > bufferbloat helping drive bufferbloat's reality home to people. Such live > demos are always a huge amount of work. > > The tsvarea meeting resulted in consensus to work toward establishing a > working group and updated set of best practices and RFCs regarding AQM > recommendations. First up was establishing a new mailing list for "aqm", > which can be joined here: > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm > > > > Now is the time to see how standards sausage is made! > > Some advise was published in the ICCRG meeting about how to proceed > further: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/slides/slides-86-iccrg-4.pdf > > > Those of you familiar with RFC 2309 may know that it was informally called > the "RED manifesto", and aware that RED's shortcomings doomed it. But such > a document (as a public statement of the IETF that this problem must be > urgently solved). > > Fred Baker (who was IETF chair recently) just issued an initial internet > draft: > > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baker-aqm-recommendation/?include_text=1 > > > This one is intended to obsolete RFC2309, and is mostly RFC2309 with the > old stuff ripped out, and not a lot of new added. YET! Please join the AQM > list to discuss what the new advice (AQM manifesto) should look like. > > Since multiple AQM algorithms can co-exist (e.g. CoDel & PIE), and > multiple flow queuing algorithms, we expect that "one size fits all" is > unlikely, but documenting them (so that purchasing RFP's can reference > them) and explaining their best areas of use; best guess is we'll see a > number of informational RFC's and BCP's result, though standards track for > the algorithms are not out of the question. > > The research and development in this area is still very young. This is > the beginning of a long road. As Matt Mathis put it in the ICCRG meeting, > the results (which you can see repeated in all the slide sets in the ICCRG > meeting) are compelling, and it is important to start the deployment > process without years of optimization: seldom do you see orders of > magnitude improvement shown as everyone did at the meeting. > > I would like to thank all of you (and Dave Taht, Kathy Nichols and Van > Jacobson in particular) for helping us to get to this point. I started as > a lone voice in the wilderness and felt very alone. > > With all your help and support there is now a growing chorus and we have > billions of devices to deploy to, and many problems yet to solve. > > Again, thanks to all. > Jim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --14dae9340eebe0d79204d82513d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Speaking of many problems yet to solve, another IETF group bufferbloat=A0pe= ople=A0may be interested in is RMCAT - RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techn= iques
Join mailing list -=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat

Ke= vin Gross
+1-303-447-0517
Media Network Consultant
AVA Networks -=A0www.AV= Anw.com,=A0www.X192.o= rg


On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Jim Ge= ttys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
The ICCRG meeting at last week's IETF went very w= ell, as did a variety of live demos of fq_codel.

You can find the ICCRG slide sets here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/86/materials.html
=A0
=A0and, = though the sessions were not video'ed by the IETF, Dave and I used our = phones and may put some low quality video up later.


https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/= A1seNKANmDg

My great thanks to Dave Taht and Comcast to pull off a live demo o= f bufferbloat helping drive bufferbloat's reality home to people. =A0Su= ch live demos are always a huge amount of work.

The tsvarea meeting resulted in consensus to work toward establishing = a working group and updated set of best practices and RFCs regarding AQM re= commendations. First up was establishing a new mailing list for "aqm&q= uot;, which can be joined here:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm
=A0


Now is the = time to see how standards sausage is made!

Some advise was published= in the ICCRG meeting about how to proceed further:

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/slides/slides-86-= iccrg-4.pdf
=A0

Those of you familiar with RFC 2309 may know that it was informa= lly called the "RED manifesto", and aware that RED's shortcom= ings doomed it. But such a document (as a public statement of the IETF that= this problem must be urgently solved).

Fred Baker (who was IETF chair recently) just issued an init= ial internet draft:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baker-aqm-recommendation/?include_te= xt=3D1
=A0

This one is intended to obsolete RFC2309= , and is mostly RFC2309 with the old stuff ripped out, and not a lot of new= added. YET! Please join the AQM list to discuss what the new advice (AQM m= anifesto) should look like.

Since multiple AQM algorithms can co-exist = (e.g. CoDel & PIE), and multiple flow queuing algorithms, we expect tha= t "one size fits all" is unlikely, but documenting them (so that = purchasing RFP's can reference them) and explaining their best areas of= use; best guess is we'll see a number of informational RFC's and B= CP's result, though standards track for the algorithms are not out of t= he question.

The research and development in this area is still very= young. =A0This is the beginning of a long road. As Matt Mathis put it in t= he ICCRG meeting, the results (which you can see repeated in all the slide = sets in the ICCRG meeting) are compelling, and it is important to start the= deployment process without years of optimization: seldom do you see orders= of magnitude improvement shown as everyone did at the meeting.

I would like to thank all of you (and Dave Taht, = Kathy Nichols and Van Jacobson in particular) for helping us to get to this= point. =A0I started as a lone voice in the wilderness and felt very alone.= =A0

With all your help and support there is now a growing c= horus and we have billions of devices to deploy to, and many problems yet t= o solve.

Again, thanks to all.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Jim=




_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


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