From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DECBA3CB35 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 20:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id q26so51670067lfc.3 for ; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=VJdxgo+cJsHYD92u1yGt0BFuhQP2fkm488rZBiFwOoU=; b=OOVqrBxXCunUE6slh0SsZOkNgkY/jYLxN8+12lhqg4TKs0KQOC4oa2/f2BeWDoOisb B7e/IVYg7aKdQlqUG9k0cXPXHXkrjE4KQYTA+HS3SPMrc0TAKA0KVpC5x7MH9B/ENEco yjohKDqWsGxX5c0jQ5KOikHNfFXJeQauNKQLuhbzKOevmiTHcF0NUBevQmM6OyQYp8lA bLCwbLWsfAFpDRRm3HrqkaeIR9goJgz0R6uH/qh7BBHblsW/hTJDH0GQ5MG+gOSzUDti bJ89YGxnXcnzZETcyGhPs8ztoDO5KI2wTH9Q/1jR2OU6znOtris2SDbisos5K0UiQdgD KI7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=VJdxgo+cJsHYD92u1yGt0BFuhQP2fkm488rZBiFwOoU=; b=ocT+E+yOVSBDn1b+zT1Ivlp9M/wwS9MOXnZWIv6Nh3o/1BTSaMWo3glbAFU9L63Tkw FouQ7Vx3Kx64IHeckyGQRdGN2Uy4YbkC8h54K6bvOwCVnENhTNlMpgA7Lk7hHLlgDhBI nIeRcZd0+H3f+1lRWlMrw9JAq6O+bYPFqQFAQgO8QZag22rRGGI+WPvwqSZLcp8KYtWF NTNbi1tHbn9ig4nU58f8WnVcf7wt7QkqwpNhQx8+lzanbi7uSQyABXanntHPcpjmsiEQ Y/ssCcxb3xYII2LA2jelvzIWfnyKJ3lZvQsz/MXXgfaKacbHsfAsarUlryQO2OJdlPuE 9rRw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVihj26a55p45zp9bJJsl6w7prNtkDZMS2DCvvtLu/82Kp4srSc qAXF05c/7eIbl4Nf1GOFAwoXxzk2AI8tKbvtGsels0fAbVI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx/KKnD9oxoJBUvCMwwRpospRP22n3o5w0x1I8W30Ucpwo1uyR3KERSfc/6VhQu6KQE0bo4UdvXvUSPxBmmcuA= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5dfb:: with SMTP id z27mr62985614lfq.128.1564706879289; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:47:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kirn Gill Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 19:47:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Does 5g have the bloat problems of WiFi? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:48:01 -0000 Oh, as an addendum, that whole dance that cellular does with inter-cell handover is known as "mobility management". There's also mobility management commands sent between base stations, or base stations and a control hub, which make the handover seamless and remove the requirement that the mobile station reauthenticate on each jump, like it must do with Wi-Fi - the mobile station will be provided all the parameters needed to instantly begin communication with the new cell via it's connection to the old cell before the jump is executed. -- Kirn Gill II Mobile (SMS only): +1 813-300-2330 VoIP: +1 813-704-0420 Email: segin2005@gmail.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kirn-gill/32/49a/9a6 On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 7:42 PM Kirn Gill wrote: > > Replying to Dave Taht, > > There's a few considerations here: > > - What is "5G"? > > Strictly speaking, 5G is ITU-T's IMT-2020 standard(s). So far, there > is only one system under this standard, 3GPP's New Radio (NR). NR is > what is meant as 5G in layspeak. > > The NR air interface is defined in 3GPP TS 38.xxx series documents. > > Against point 2, about operators simply wanting more active SIMs to > charge for, it's worth noting that NR can be deployed for private > operation; the company that's using the service could itself own the > entire network it's using. There are companies using private LTE > networks for V2x and remote sensing, see for example: > https://steelguru.com/mining/l/532247, or contract a third party to > build a dedicated network: > https://www.zdnet.com/article/telstra-deploys-private-lte-network-in-png-volcanic-crater-gold-mine/ > > NR operates over commercial and unlicensed frequency bands. The > specific frequency bands defined for the system are listed in 3GPP TS > 38.104 (Rel. 15) section 5.2 > > 802.11a/b/g/n/ac/ad use CSMA/CA - Carrier Sense Multiple Access with > Collison Avoidance - as their multiple access scheme, same as 802.3. > Each transmitter completely owns the medium when transmitting. > > 802.11ax, LTE, and NR use OFDMA - Orthogonal Frequency Division > Multiple Access - as their multiple access scheme. Instead of the > transmitter having the full channel for the duration it is > transmitting, OFDMA takes OFDM modulation and divides not only across > timeslots/timed transmission frames, but also by subdividing the full > channel into simpler "resource blocks" with a fixed number of OFDM > tones. > > LTE and NR have many features that Wi-Fi lacks which results in a far > superior user experience. OFDMA, only recently adopted for 802.11ax > ("Wi-Fi 6"), generally results in far superior throughput rates than > CSMA/CA when many users are involved. In LTE and NR, this is also > optimized further with centralized (at the eNB/gNB) MAC scheduling for > all traffic on both uplink and downlink. > > Inter-cell handover in all cellular systems is much better than in > Wi-Fi; Wi-Fi is a mobile-only system where the mobile station is in > full control of the process, and it's a "break before make", that is, > the mobile station fully disassociates from the first access point > before associating with the next access point, even in the case of a > shared BSSID and background Ethernet network. It's like unplugging > from one Ethernet port and plugging into another one rather quickly, > complete with the brief hiccup in network applications. > > Cellular is a lot better; the mobile station scans for neighboring > cells to the one it's connected to in it's spare time, and sends this > list to the network, so that the base station can "see" the different > signal strength's from the mobile station's perspective. The network > then instructs the mobile station to make a blind jump to whichever > cell it feels will best serve the mobile station and reduce power > consumption on that end. "Association" is with the network itself, not > with individual base stations, so there's no need to do the "break > before make" dance of Wi-Fi. > > -- > Kirn Gill II > Mobile (SMS only): +1 813-300-2330 > VoIP: +1 813-704-0420 > Email: segin2005@gmail.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kirn-gill/32/49a/9a6