From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com (mail-pg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8308D3B29E for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 22:57:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 77so700967pgd.8 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:57:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mounce.com.au; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X9CqavJHKkclhFainu+TfAvGddWy+l4Sa8AgNCEFnpY=; b=HFQHQSEiyNmdhYDNbF7TPT/gyDDT87SeFCyvOTBIEGoRpOMKwiEVgTCsJmJioE9YLe Ono1c1wv5rhYBR02uo+19Z1Jn+Mh4+0u3A6dWTsVOdw/QI+UTM7aHFXZbRnRvaaTl1O3 brqPvdDJkF/H+lkVv4/ZASH15EWbgXQ1uAg8xR0MZ62BQ6ly1Nryp+x4BIBDLVSjMRqW xiW5ox6B1Tzsb4bDiXSHEKgirKc9dLuwgJ3mrADUhZUcG/HVKDPV+IxuIINwrZgsZQGO r6bzXoMXFDDyB4Pt4QosjVtKEsSZpNigItzM2QCa0snzbAMgQlu16yIrUzHW8PjHIj2N /Ziw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=X9CqavJHKkclhFainu+TfAvGddWy+l4Sa8AgNCEFnpY=; b=DdISBf+ozCbhHJKCGeh2enkenyAFBSwZCOrRet5UN87XdoPrPUfNC7mVNIpxkZQi2s ZFvQPecZaGMiVyJotCAyMKckYp7xghQkJgsM65gAVMvrlBowfbC0HStTLboj50gqynF0 yy3a+dURHnnJM7nOKIuqqn26wQPK9AiYXi662zhRCqhJgxlImp4o13XsaixtBMHKHjef 0oXxgOcD8KZHz2Q9t9ZAlbtdOZ/6geFy8GE9cYtfyhUSc8kiRwlXQju8SMTWyhINC47+ UhGZvfofC2pE7250SBgqD8Vh7s7pF7fcdBCOwGzpZRtdXauEbSIWnPxtXzjeceVrf+NE MMnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLPV3OpLds4ZWElIIKo62N15Jif03ZxuGBnmZKxROolniSYrzM+ Z2HFmauQ2cu0T15ZwqdS2uJgc6ZmZPk9E7K9+xWOnQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot3pXOTc8oQq+HdA+ef0Zzhlw1Mxb+qy2fGI0ynFCthThvc0B2MW3Yb5b0zioyW3cDbCZ4fcU2mmcWcJiqYWdE= X-Received: by 10.98.10.77 with SMTP id s74mr12845640pfi.104.1513915068411; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:57:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.187.3 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 19:57:32 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [116.212.224.194] In-Reply-To: References: <3657B600-407D-46A5-BE00-BE0088096FA7@gmail.com> From: Ryan Mounce Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 14:27:32 +1030 Message-ID: To: Rich Brown Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 03:57:49 -0000 Some further reading on the issue https://www.mail-archive.com/nanog@nanog.org/msg87442.html https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2530363 Regards, Ryan Mounce On 22 December 2017 at 13:25, Ryan Mounce wrote: > I've experienced this recently myself. In my case I have a 100Mbps > link from my ISP and their shaper will queue up to about 120ms worth > of packets (on top of the ~10ms baseline latency). I run cake in > ingress mode at 99.2Mbps, which has normally been enough to keep > everything in check and keep my ISP's queue empty at least in the > steady state. > > Boot up a Windows 10 PC that's been unused for a few months, let it > update and bam! 100-130ms RTT, family member's Netflix stream in the > next room stalls completely, and running a quick speedtest on a > different machine (that should get ~50% share of the link under normal > circumstances with dual-dsthost) yields about 1.2Mbps on a 100Mbps > link! I performed a quick pcap while this was happening and determined > that Windows Update had started on the order of 120 parallel HTTP > downloads from 2 different Akamai cache IPs (within my ISP's network > 20ms away). > > The 20ms jump in latency in your case just indicates that there is a > small buffer in your DSLAM, however it is still being flooded by the > parallel transfers from the CDN. > > Windows 10 probably deserves most of the blame for opening so many > parallel connections, however I think there is also some concern here > with Akamai's FastTCP not responding to congestion signals. > > Regards, > Ryan Mounce > > > On 22 December 2017 at 12:31, Rich Brown wrote: >> I'm using LEDE 17.01.4 on my Archer C7v2. I have a 7mbps/768kbps ADSL2+ = connection through Fairpoint. The modem stats page shows its "attainable ra= tes" (kbps): 13330/1272 and Rates: 8271/1181. My SQM settings are: >> >> Download: 7000 (kbps) >> Upload: 925 >> Queue Disc: Cake/piece_of_cake.qos >> Link Layer: ATM/44 bytes overhead >> Advanced Options: default >> >> I have noticed that Win10 updates cause the network connection to become= unusable for other services/people, as if I had bufferbloat. But ping time= s remain stable - they jump from ~20-22 msec unloaded to 40-50 msec. >> >> Experiments I have tried: >> >> - Setting download speed to 5000 makes the connection usable for other p= eople, although the ping times remain about the same (40-50 msec) >> >> - Setting the download speed to 8600 still keeps ping times down, but th= at really harms other people's performance. >> >> - The link rates (download and upload) seem to track the SQM setting, me= asured with both YAMon and the built-in real-time graphs. I get ~6,000 kbp= s with a 7000 download setting, I got ~3,000kbps at the 5000 setting. I get= ~8500 kbps after setting download to 8600. >> >> - This doesn't seem to happen when I'm downloading other kinds of files = (I haven't tried torrenting files...) Downloading non-Win10 update files se= ems to leave the connection in a fairly responsive state. >> >> Any thoughts? What other experiments should I make? Thanks! >> >> Rich >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat