From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf0-x233.google.com (mail-pf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CBB53B29E for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 21:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d23so14772967pfe.9 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:55:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mounce.com.au; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D75XBa4fmjZqo7QWq536aKooSu1A2MX27BEoUbD1xR4=; b=GPyAsoV9wGjbUWAGcTTpZE+XNiEFzmjuZrGi9hcWMgyGd/d2X4mBdqgRgqhieaA9OX cNxj1XYi08oBHGl2NmQLmIKLGnRt5lntcUAnLiTYraQ++pA7fStk3HA2P5Z5PH8gXltS Ab3bUd6+JX/rgARrR5hUt81a1Gt5i8HkKS9s79ZAk3350YdBhO/6DbiZCYpyL0+nkJEn FXO7kwHc/WvPVtZflNjcbedqJTKmmfbvazyCyYWgtePebyu40Dur9tN7RLengLFCiAF/ wt1AwI6BE9aIUAHmu7d7H5ILlLqFbq5a0x2AqNZz8/peFq0YZqtl++d/UVJ8AkS1W+lr dMBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D75XBa4fmjZqo7QWq536aKooSu1A2MX27BEoUbD1xR4=; b=ruOTn2AYgfuo7HpMXbZldQQlmODnYaoVeYZG9PJ8kIFdQb58oD2tBglDAbn8fWsSyG 0IwRn/yjyf0jHAeBGr1KWzBOAf9kEgnxV26pOArbeeCRUzmnLQIbCaHx1ZcwxeDmIhW5 CU98FHQpPRL6p7mgKFFF8DlRKWJKlHjn3t+Qsa0QVAJxNTxQN7SIx/AaHKgBerSzjuo9 91DjJ+vO6AUi1nJ3hPF8dKzTXUNpi0LDnPKRfsmejAbrmkvJ83v+IclOKvIdXSHNNnkU cUkfDHwRKT8mYit9WrGwaLQeoYBdR4efziroRjKg41s2cN9BD1Y3Aao0SpEaNdSZx3y5 TLkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mImpb7HzqJHBrPA3xlKQ2Xc+ppklI9WAzC47zaMMb6PF3nTZpyi eeCWR6V92s8ECxsiY8sYTLKh9TuB2+RQ1jKB6mwv2BjhJ7Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouABxoJAaN/Clf/mUTrEbw5j1iPRN76t6rxZAEQ4+nYX+y4Yzfkw3j3AWotmpRPSh9yiahEBJ2riqVsHlooQEc= X-Received: by 10.98.10.77 with SMTP id s74mr12694450pfi.104.1513911319018; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:55:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.187.3 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:55:03 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [116.212.224.170] In-Reply-To: <3657B600-407D-46A5-BE00-BE0088096FA7@gmail.com> References: <3657B600-407D-46A5-BE00-BE0088096FA7@gmail.com> From: Ryan Mounce Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 13:25:03 +1030 Message-ID: To: Rich Brown Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Win10 Updates vs cake X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 02:55:20 -0000 I've experienced this recently myself. In my case I have a 100Mbps link from my ISP and their shaper will queue up to about 120ms worth of packets (on top of the ~10ms baseline latency). I run cake in ingress mode at 99.2Mbps, which has normally been enough to keep everything in check and keep my ISP's queue empty at least in the steady state. Boot up a Windows 10 PC that's been unused for a few months, let it update and bam! 100-130ms RTT, family member's Netflix stream in the next room stalls completely, and running a quick speedtest on a different machine (that should get ~50% share of the link under normal circumstances with dual-dsthost) yields about 1.2Mbps on a 100Mbps link! I performed a quick pcap while this was happening and determined that Windows Update had started on the order of 120 parallel HTTP downloads from 2 different Akamai cache IPs (within my ISP's network 20ms away). The 20ms jump in latency in your case just indicates that there is a small buffer in your DSLAM, however it is still being flooded by the parallel transfers from the CDN. Windows 10 probably deserves most of the blame for opening so many parallel connections, however I think there is also some concern here with Akamai's FastTCP not responding to congestion signals. Regards, Ryan Mounce On 22 December 2017 at 12:31, Rich Brown wrote: > I'm using LEDE 17.01.4 on my Archer C7v2. I have a 7mbps/768kbps ADSL2+ c= onnection through Fairpoint. The modem stats page shows its "attainable rat= es" (kbps): 13330/1272 and Rates: 8271/1181. My SQM settings are: > > Download: 7000 (kbps) > Upload: 925 > Queue Disc: Cake/piece_of_cake.qos > Link Layer: ATM/44 bytes overhead > Advanced Options: default > > I have noticed that Win10 updates cause the network connection to become = unusable for other services/people, as if I had bufferbloat. But ping times= remain stable - they jump from ~20-22 msec unloaded to 40-50 msec. > > Experiments I have tried: > > - Setting download speed to 5000 makes the connection usable for other pe= ople, although the ping times remain about the same (40-50 msec) > > - Setting the download speed to 8600 still keeps ping times down, but tha= t really harms other people's performance. > > - The link rates (download and upload) seem to track the SQM setting, mea= sured with both YAMon and the built-in real-time graphs. I get ~6,000 kbps= with a 7000 download setting, I got ~3,000kbps at the 5000 setting. I get = ~8500 kbps after setting download to 8600. > > - This doesn't seem to happen when I'm downloading other kinds of files (= I haven't tried torrenting files...) Downloading non-Win10 update files see= ms to leave the connection in a fairly responsive state. > > Any thoughts? What other experiments should I make? Thanks! > > Rich > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat