From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wj0-x22e.google.com (mail-wj0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A74453B260 for ; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:03:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wj0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id tk12so72126441wjb.3 for ; Wed, 07 Dec 2016 09:03:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NNxFI0Cd6fZg3bw8E5KTsM8MkEh7UzZWYxX1IJQI9es=; b=wDYTJF/+w+YiSpl79oGohK94U1n+g4DAW0w8zOolHBhfz74cC2m5eLVuKIJ4qW7iIK sO3/dCjOvN+Plw6Hctvy5UkJn8RWYozS71iHQqms4ZcAZrVysM4KCFdqtZUntoG08oEH IvAadMggpbsPe6rVX2c/uT6X/J8aK9oT+AkmJWQYunadw3rauNAPDNEsy2sTvrYKK/ay aTN2FBBdsDMHOItXVNbVK0oIJQXYdp8USBgJYfY5A87kRYS9vun5s3XPAFgI2yVxedF2 ViStwCwhdHFfFqinUOfhd7aPxELPZhwyZwXVW9PvuJebEyMtM0+rtxFXPeA3KkHdGxBM cuFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NNxFI0Cd6fZg3bw8E5KTsM8MkEh7UzZWYxX1IJQI9es=; b=OSyE9ddiByPihnwXsJfq2qdn/uhV1gswA2qkAO032a2ivLxeIIhvn9VW3K/zH6oEfa t6Wp/UaGB7SbJp6I1Q26x36wBOlhMJR2CsIYQIxuxHdh9FC+Eh3xf2xPRXc6hB7x7is4 eIQqi3gwI5d4SuiMdmCGiz2s6aFAzXoUkSAsjxyx0cTCl8RYC1WD42NaprZz9vTbidAj BW4bDffM3cgiO46ogZuTKy1bm63kCIWEPpTO6EhbpUIZeM/aNJNuHDc4okyIeAfHmYEK 3OjjpYMX1kQmcWWRnDp6K5+7mm2P03aoKHAzm2zmf7eFjb2ze3GBMzX3lNYvjbjoKIKr cuLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC0175CbmYrX0SGGi02AaTpCO+uipGaW52fsS66AWG5mL9QZGTb7XYCE++HTUB0W8ob9CZ/OsxE4o2Bl8gQ== X-Received: by 10.194.134.66 with SMTP id pi2mr40647113wjb.61.1481130192665; Wed, 07 Dec 2016 09:03:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.99.142 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Dec 2016 09:03:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20161207164756.GA25681@sesse.net> References: <56F6A3AB-3A47-4178-BEFF-04E3DC23B039@gmail.com> <20161202224006.GA5065@sesse.net> <1480721486.18162.392.camel@edumazet-glaptop3.roam.corp.google.com> <20161203191353.GA972@sesse.net> <83609420-9ab8-666d-8282-e2f22b17d68d@gmail.com> <20161207164756.GA25681@sesse.net> From: Alan Jenkins Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 17:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" Cc: Neal Cardwell , Jonathan Morton , "aqm@ietf.org" , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [Bloat] TCP BBR paper is now generally available X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2016 17:03:13 -0000 On 07/12/2016, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 04:28:15PM +0000, Alan Jenkins wrote: >> Since no-one's explicitly mentioned this: be aware that SSH is known for >> doing application-level windowing, limiting performance. >> >> E.g. see https://www.psc.edu/index.php/hpn-ssh/638 > > Hm, I thought this was mainly about scp, not ssh? > > But yes, hpn-ssh is a sad story; maintenance has been very up and down over > the years, and there's no end in sight for an upstream merge. > > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: https://www.sesse.net/ Sorry, I meant to check the dates as well. I see now this is old, I don't know myself whether it is still relevant or not. I'm sure there was a window at the SSH level. It looks like SFTP had a window on top of that http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/flow-control.html I'm not certain if the same applies to the use of SCP, and if so which layer(s) had the biggest problem. Alan