From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ea0-f176.google.com (mail-ea0-f176.google.com [209.85.215.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8630021F1FD for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:00:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ea0-f176.google.com with SMTP id a13so1391028eaa.21 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=P54wMQT6kupPCLSImJaBLyHlp1DOHZ5/b80jE1nHJNQ=; b=CDnehcB/kCjqDhbJgEMFyc7Dab702unDK69jZ8mP8gRf9htiRMCRyOAomn77DWv3mo cjs4uA25/uYVbeb5nIn7NKMjdUcEVYmemc/1LDT07p36lgpdEknBAP/m63yjiVrA/ZUs qMHo2Nc/xVDzKtwXL7Q8SDsNu0kSu7OsNKmiFaCUNdbQZUAoXnsaTWv4sWEAHt0Hd3ZP VrftEXu/mw9N/VYFEkZkVv/l9/J86KoMoD5xZnip5+XwfjBenzEUq7VxLBEKueZ8zwm2 FAKSfn6Y0SYW/r21F/bBurjX2w3rdc0RbzikT8UUsYALa4Enu0A1GvdpiJHTUjccP4Sz eG0A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.14.204.198 with SMTP id h46mr30943860eeo.1.1358546433616; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.14.209.4 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA0801AF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA0801AF@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:00:33 -0800 Message-ID: From: Haiqing Jiang To: Ingemar Johansson S Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b343e3c962c1104d3973db6 Cc: "end2end-interest@postel.org" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Bloat] bufferbloat paper X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 22:00:36 -0000 --047d7b343e3c962c1104d3973db6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi It's really happy to know that you are verifying the problem I pointed out in my paper. It's quite urgent to pay more attentions to the bufferbloat in CellNet in my opinion. But because of the lack of connections inside carriers (AT&T, Verizon, etc.), in my work I still found some limitations to figure out the fundamental answers to 1). where the buffers exactly are; 2). how the buffers are built up with interacting with LTE/HSPA/EVDO protocols; 3). how common it is for large scale daily life usage the problem could lower down user experiences..... All those problems, I hope to see deeper discussions in this maillist. Thanks.... Best, Haiqing Jiang On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Ingemar Johansson S < ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi > > Include Mark's original post (below) as it was scrubbed > > I don't have an data of bufferbloat for wireline access and the fiber > connection that I have at home shows little evidence of bufferbloat. > > Wireless access seems to be a different story though. > After reading the "Tackling Bufferbloat in 3G/4G Mobile Networks" by Jian= g > et al. I decided to make a few measurements of my own (hope that the > attached png is not removed) > > The measurement setup was quite simple, a Laptop with Ubuntu 12.04 with a > 3G modem attached. > The throughput was computed from the wireshark logs and RTT was measured > with ping (towards a webserver hosted by Akamai). The location is Lule=E5 > city centre, Sweden (fixed locations) and the measurement was made at > lunchtime on Dec 6 2012 . > > During the measurement session I did some close to normal websurf, > including watching embedded videoclips and youtube. In some cases the > effects of bufferbloat was clearly noticeable. > Admit that this is just one sample, a more elaborate study with more > samples would be interesting to see. > > 3G has the interesting feature that packets are very seldom lost in > downlink (data going to the terminal). I did not see a single packet loss > in this test!. I wont elaborate on the reasons in this email. > I would however believe that LTE is better off in this respect as long as > AQM is implemented, mainly because LTE is a packet-switched architecture. > > /Ingemar > > Marks post. > ******** > [I tried to post this in a couple places to ensure I hit folks who would > be interested. If you end up with multiple copies of the email, my > apologies. --allman] > > I know bufferbloat has been an interest of lots of folks recently. So, > I thought I'd flog a recent paper that presents a little data on the > topic ... > > Mark Allman. Comments on Bufferbloat, ACM SIGCOMM Computer > Communication Review, 43(1), January 2013. > http://www.icir.org/mallman/papers/bufferbloat-ccr13.pdf > > Its an initial paper. I think more data would be great! > > allman > > > -- > http://www.icir.org/mallman/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > --=20 ----------------------------------- Haiqing Jiang, Computer Science Department, North Carolina State University Homepage: https://sites.google.com/site/hqjiang1988/ --047d7b343e3c962c1104d3973db6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

It's really happy to know that you are verifying = the problem I pointed out in my paper. It's quite urgent to pay more at= tentions to the bufferbloat in CellNet in my opinion.=A0

But because of the lack of connections inside carriers (AT&T, Veri= zon, etc.), in my work I still found some limitations to figure out the fun= damental answers to 1). where the buffers exactly are; 2). how the buffers = are built up with interacting with LTE/HSPA/EVDO protocols; 3). how common = it is for large scale daily life usage the problem could lower down user ex= periences..... All those problems, I hope to see deeper discussions in this= maillist. Thanks....

Best,
Haiqing Jiang

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi

Include Mark's original post (below) as it was scrubbed

I don't have an data of bufferbloat for wireline access and the fiber c= onnection that I have at home shows little evidence of bufferbloat.

Wireless access seems to be a different story though.
After reading the "Tackling Bufferbloat in 3G/4G Mobile Networks"= by Jiang et al. I decided to make a few measurements of my own (hope that = the attached png is not removed)

The measurement setup was quite simple, a Laptop with Ubuntu 12.04 with a 3= G modem attached.
The throughput was computed from the wireshark logs and RTT was measured wi= th ping (towards a webserver hosted by Akamai). The location is Lule=E5 cit= y centre, Sweden (fixed locations) and the measurement was made at lunchtim= e on Dec 6 2012 .

During the measurement session I did some close to normal websurf, includin= g watching embedded videoclips and youtube. In some cases the effects of bu= fferbloat was clearly noticeable.
Admit that this is just one sample, a more elaborate study with more sample= s would be interesting to see.

3G has the interesting feature that packets are very seldom lost in downlin= k (data going to the terminal). I did not see a single packet loss in this = test!. I wont elaborate on the reasons in this email.
I would however believe that LTE is better off in this respect as long as A= QM is implemented, mainly because LTE is a packet-switched architecture.
/Ingemar

Marks post.
********
[I tried to post this in a couple places to ensure I hit folks who would =A0be interested. =A0If you end up with multiple copies of the email, my =A0apologies. =A0--allman]

I know bufferbloat has been an interest of lots of folks recently. =A0So, I thought I'd flog a recent paper that presents a little data on the topic ...

=A0 =A0 Mark Allman. =A0Comments on Bufferbloat, ACM SIGCOMM Computer
=A0 =A0 Communication Review, 43(1), January 2013.
=A0 =A0 http://www.icir.org/mallman/papers/bufferbloat-ccr13.pd= f

Its an initial paper. =A0I think more data would be great!

allman


--
http://www.icir.= org/mallman/





_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net<= /a>
= https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat




--
---= --------------------------------
Haiqing Jiang,=A0
Computer Scienc= e Department, North Carolina State University
--047d7b343e3c962c1104d3973db6--