From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F35243CB38 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 18:17:09 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id m22so24406951eji.10 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:17:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jackrabbitwireless.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yU394n6+jTHmdBK0v0veCUF7D1WadDyEazDhInsxrI8=; b=b+FA0J/7BXJpm59leGz3BWSMeQ2W3PjrDGLxASihikW5TwcC/J/O6G2BYwW6I8Jysh AqSE7ixWepTQZSZmoXIs345rsUpc+hnfMWGI4n/KOtqYzzv4ih9Oyw/ggJUwS1qXiy1y XsIxmE/eI2t11+ara3/P+zfNuKR4vfW2b3vsw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=yU394n6+jTHmdBK0v0veCUF7D1WadDyEazDhInsxrI8=; b=X7dnHX1rWan87K5laTZMDz1Jwc+Sie8n2MwGuGjmZZsZGdc8l6O2ADwdtns56vpJeB ey1n5jUfHB284eDkb1V6gyhYPPQRUfw+5ph//OlzYTI4G2JTZ5f6WayTtzLkRM5gyywl l3bgEY+FAM+PVua0G0379IQu3tDFHBEoV3w3lXfovnKYfUUo4HZt03M5OwoUn9Onm8lJ 6FBQd63Zks83qfYlVyiOcWuThIwG/YQTz1pE5D9lw3ehtBHsO4gRrhqMUI3TF7wZEwYp YeiyuAilKSLel4vW5S8WXjmAv/Otr0rbROZbYMeSgB1N9yZuIST9UoxxZ4y9/lzxWhme rL9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pldbksqGl7eJQalLdq17aHOB6xfCVzPmk31A78BgfslLUrZM2FG bKLx2sBGW7+GmtQluBCZU02iOWxrIIwy/CmfKpfBzw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf4InbPQdTQN0j2Qar5TypvaxXn7OeFxY2lEWOOVCe16OIsCwpCMqWJRDv3JjMHq0lj5gSR5Vv17uXLd3dQ6gMc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:6d07:b0:78d:a836:1d88 with SMTP id sa7-20020a1709076d0700b0078da8361d88mr8639183ejc.470.1668381428722; Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:17:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Robert_Chac=C3=B3n?= Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 16:16:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: Dave Taht , libreqos , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000068c13805ed6252a6" Subject: Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] gamebench quote X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2022 23:17:10 -0000 --00000000000068c13805ed6252a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Same here. We compete primarily against Charter Spectrum in the suburbs. Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us frequently due to the high upload bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network. We made a page on our website that tries to educate prospective clients about latency and bloat. I added the GameBench quote to it (thanks, Dave!) Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps ease their minds about "speed" when they're used to being bombarded with messaging about needing gigabit bandwidth. > I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out that latency is important :D This! That and their inability to really do whole-home WiFi at scale helps WISPs offer a true performance answer to cable internet. On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:56 PM dan via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > This is definitely our focus. We preach low latency first and better > uploads second, downloads are a distant third. We do have to advertise t= he > faster speeds just to get into the conversation because Spectrum for > example and now TDS are all about 1G or 2G services. See my other email > though, Spectrum's latency and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually worse > than that to many services but I don't have a remote login to a TDS site = at > the moment. I'm 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than Spectrum, and I'm > 20ms better than Spectrum on Lumen DIA. > > I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out > that latency is important :D > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> >> https://www.gamebench.net/network-performance-and-gamer-experience-the-u= s-edition/ >> >> "Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now >> clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network >> providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially be= nefit >> from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud >> gaming." >> >> -- >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666= 65607352320-FXtz >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --=20 Robert Chac=C3=B3n CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC Dev | LibreQoS.io --00000000000068c13805ed6252a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Same here. We compete primarily against Charter Spect= rum in the suburbs.
Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us freq= uently due to the high upload bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network.
We made a = page on our website that tries to educate prospective clients about lat= ency and bloat. I added the GameBench quote to it (thanks, Dave!)
=
Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps ease their minds abo= ut "speed" when they're used to being bombarded with messagin= g about needing gigabit bandwidth.

> I'= m happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out that = latency is important :D

This! That and their inabi= lity to really do whole-home WiFi at scale helps WISPs offer a true perform= ance answer to cable internet.

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:56 PM da= n via LibreQoS <libreq= os@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
This is definitely our focus.=C2= =A0 We preach low latency first and better uploads second, downloads are a = distant third.=C2=A0 We do have to advertise the faster speeds just to get = into the conversation because Spectrum for example and now TDS are all abou= t 1G or 2G services.=C2=A0 See my other email though, Spectrum's latenc= y and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually worse than that to many services b= ut I don't have a remote login to a TDS site at the moment.=C2=A0 I'= ;m 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than Spectrum, and I'm 20ms better = than Spectrum on Lumen DIA.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I'm happy enough if TDS = and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out that latency is important := D

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferb= loat.net> wrote:
https://ww= w.gamebench.net/network-performance-and-gamer-experience-the-us-edition/

"Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now=
clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network
providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially benef= it
from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud
gaming."

--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos


--
Robert Chac=C3=B3n

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