From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62a.google.com (mail-ej1-x62a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B0293CB38 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 2024 18:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a2b4aba3a8aso2220366b.3 for ; Mon, 08 Jan 2024 15:15:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704755755; x=1705360555; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ypMCdg3p7q0bufy5C1v6bPtjSrPdt/+0fa1n9KMin8A=; b=BbHaY0OLiTBHmziyTbzAAXURloJROnabVjh/1JHNCcP87t5MVlIJ81Bku/A5LlE23g yg55keFhtEbk35naqqTJ4CB2KVg1eRa/NTJwiohOSGiAZxW1dsBgFQhQDIT6D90yzdht U1wYcrfaPkRjjgAIbCJp5XY6F1wNBMoBFZS0l3jjgnf1bfy6HoRpK3jWVU3DrHIhkv59 b9wZNLwotnAhHwwxv0tmtzkHIa5Nr1tvZDslbZvYBLQH77UI95LDLA221yj+w49NZbUi wkzc9p5OQ34vc1JqnRO05zZX58nItrvYilFez8EVkm/4wzCBzQb6dxCjKpcBOOCO6+HQ 6NKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704755755; x=1705360555; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ypMCdg3p7q0bufy5C1v6bPtjSrPdt/+0fa1n9KMin8A=; b=nLgXgqJDu5Al2soMB4OM6Qo11vgAegcIb791rjqGi+LuN7KFxDxTZMWkab49LHiyJD 9A5OVxHunwWOb+aO+WYkt2ELav30nyxXQlROnoh3v7Xbg5U/c7u3e9WmbCm0ldhp1yzf SabMBCBlD6Iu2TaniPw7/ZUZYQ3UVYxQg8AEY5qncB4focms4STmvjJrGPBOZX1j7M8g guGoGdhlj6RrxMsvabC1/JECTf17AQT/ctBGOdsC3yG4++6sZTG124FiblGSlR2p6SFE NE+rgp7X8qoRlAuD201f+BD9Z5ZhHBGBXTdh6N0WpHJZzI//G0089pXvuAT74TGQVdPM 3ubw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw0+uVhL9mJycnsmjrpbXpeTdm9iUPe9NM054OoopWYLZuwlI/5 SIW12Cqac+6O8pMskxIM6qvjln4Asly/L6EnuC8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSUyTXq33As54GyUfm4W3MDBCEi/PMFkTBVoo2bZz2h6e0ez6UpUfhxZjA6AqLGFHF+jglkvtegi/NDWzlsNg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2652:b0:a2b:55a:9e10 with SMTP id i18-20020a170906265200b00a2b055a9e10mr77449ejc.141.1704755754923; Mon, 08 Jan 2024 15:15:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871qareduw.wl-jch@irif.fr> <4065073E-D259-4403-B8AC-71059FC536DE@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4065073E-D259-4403-B8AC-71059FC536DE@gmx.de> From: David Schinazi Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 15:15:43 -0800 Message-ID: To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , Bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000337961060e776149" Subject: Re: [Bloat] goresponsiveness learned a few tricks... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2024 23:15:57 -0000 --000000000000337961060e776149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My understanding is that Apple chose to report RTT as an inverse because people are used to "higher number means better". The target audience for network speed tests is the average slightly-tech-savvy consumer, and those aren't all familiar with what latency means. Also, car enthusiasts like RPMs :-) David On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 1:53=E2=80=AFPM Sebastian Moeller via Bloat < bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Hi Julien, > > On 8 January 2024 22:04:23 CET, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: > >> (h++ps://github.com/network-quality/draft-ietf-ippm-responsiveness). > > > >There's quite a few good ideas in this draft, but the one that I find > >intriguing is reporting RTT values in RPM (units of 1/60 Hz) rather than > >milliseconds. > > That idea, reporting the reciprocal has been around for some time, I thin= k > I first heard it from Jonathan Morton. But this is the first > implementation.... > > Now personally I tend to think about 'latency' as sort of a budget, and > then accounting where this budget is spent is easier with durations than > periods. But I understand the attraction of 'bigger is better' numbers as > well. Though most people also know smaller is better number, like product > prices or taxes owed, but I digress. > > > > > >I wonder how well this works. I'll experiment with undergrads. > > The goresponsiveness code is quite readable and might give a convenient > starting point for some quick and dirty exploration... > > > > >-- Juliusz > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > --000000000000337961060e776149 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My understanding is that Apple chose to report RTT as an i= nverse because people are used to "higher number means better". T= he target audience for network speed tests is the average slightly-tech-sav= vy=C2=A0consumer, and those aren't all familiar with what latency means= . Also, car enthusiasts like RPMs :-)
David

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 = at 1:53=E2=80=AFPM Sebastian Moeller via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
=
Hi Julien,

On 8 January 2024 22:04:23 CET, Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr> wrote:
>> (h++ps://github.com/network= -quality/draft-ietf-ippm-responsiveness).
>
>There's quite a few good ideas in this draft, but the one that I fi= nd
>intriguing is reporting RTT values in RPM (units of 1/60 Hz) rather tha= n
>milliseconds.

That idea, reporting the reciprocal has been around for some time, I think = I first heard it from Jonathan Morton. But this is the first implementation= ....

Now personally I tend to think about 'latency' as sort of a budget,= and then accounting where this budget is spent is easier with durations th= an periods. But I understand the attraction of 'bigger is better' n= umbers as well. Though most people also know smaller is better number, like= product prices or taxes owed, but I digress.


>
>I wonder how well this works.=C2=A0 I'll experiment with undergrads= .

The goresponsiveness code is quite readable and might give a convenient sta= rting point for some quick and dirty exploration...

>
>-- Juliusz

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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