From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D4163B2A4 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id a65so368735wme.5 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 08:09:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freeswitch-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Sl/lrFilmjfbF/tREQoo/NrKtlPm70XywiHWzucCnoA=; b=GLq7hyxO1H/1SNmAvhz2gU+2jbjPCmDHwqJZJapHzCjD9kFIqtlyKU0dVIR/ffz2X6 Fw2UBrZQCwQs7Hy8pxPA5iJuM9COSpB9UucCNODayoSJ1oq4dTmmaRXTije75AlZlvDu q68a3MGcAlp6IruRTTbs0tAC6ztn4qLeeRQk4/kFszp2lOmjvjCsjyfvR7wV6XO4xWRA YQASG1VRqJv5H5nqTXGYtxppzMLvMi/J7U+DTUrTpzYcoWhIfZG/WE3aDJ0XWBL6REog WyNlGfzBLB3Fhmv4TLpINWqrtSmwSuVP11XMJF3znMD/pijKb4gaUU4wiZkaL777EQ6b PNkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Sl/lrFilmjfbF/tREQoo/NrKtlPm70XywiHWzucCnoA=; b=Ap80gJewwHCEc4zBIuX0H6EpGdrMVirpmH4fvfbF9bOkpjgauNIq/PMBV4IJu5fmS9 a87qWMzP+14zds8IAukokPaChaePiL3y+UcNlYDhyqfrQxM/g8WJKatyc50pX/03NurP tkOKOTg2Cuoxdi3jN9l1Z1bn+hlvnv/5VKAdsruQrkTGfNRNOk/eh+G8XCfVQ5RwUva2 7rDi71jl0snt4GT76u02El7n2TNyl3Tx+nT+C2YoCYJ8in9y8crIVaqCOuy/slhHinLs 3YzSyv9B6OdXb/7fyj2HcXirvcHyAvnfAWGbkLaeU2kAepHeRsNCcNf7mdkhl8t3GHPc ohwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531AUj9Yb12DbjLhgse3GKKDcv7FyXyZ9en19G+lhI8mSC/XI+5N 4zZUoAlWBNp9cCSs+2v7iwkSuIkL2ALVJmTT/hzDLg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwPpmK2tfmXYrULXcyMhaFOramP7JbLkFQwCHVg2aO4cUnu+nBc8VYYLWXoofHsypQXEGeB1jdufc3/olaxSBE= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5906:: with SMTP id n6mr482261wmb.160.1599750547965; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 08:09:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0x6os8t.fsf@toke.dk> <1916fe37-04f5-137b-0ec5-a82fa9c3898e@indexexchange.com> <727bcf44-e3b5-f6ff-3063-e8b080dfb6e1@rogers.com> <0FD03007-9D6F-4110-858D-0A75834DA580@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0FD03007-9D6F-4110-858D-0A75834DA580@gmail.com> From: Anthony Minessale II Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: Matt Mathis , David Collier-Brown , Ken Rice , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000024502e05aef6f371" Subject: Re: [Bloat] How about a topical LWN article on demonstrating the real-world goodness of CAKE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 15:09:09 -0000 --00000000000024502e05aef6f371 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Still willing to host a call on SignalWire Work if you want to check it out. I barely use this email addr so I keep forgetting to check it. On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Jonathan Morton wrote: > > On 8 Sep, 2020, at 7:48 pm, Matt Mathis via Bloat < > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > > To be simplistic, you might just talk about cake vs (bloated) drop > tail. To be thorough, you also need to make the case that cake is better > than other AQMs. This feels like too much for LWN, but silence on other > solutions might trigger skeptics. > > Personally, my position is: > > 1: Bloated dumb FIFOs are terrible. > > 2: Basic AQM is good. This can be as simple as TBF+WRED; it solves a > large part of the basic problem by eliminating multi-second queue delays. > In some cases this can solve very serious problems, such as DNS lookups > failing when the link is loaded, quite adequately. Properly configured, > you can keep queue delays below the 100ms threshold for reasonable VoIP > performance. > > 3: FQ-AQM is better. That generally means HTB+fq_codel, but other forms > of this exist. It means essentially zero added delay for non-saturating > flows. It's an easy way to make DNS, VoIP and online gaming work nicely > without having to restrict data-hungry applications. > > 4: Cake offers some extra tools and aims to be easier (more intuitive) to > configure. Currently, it is the best solution for slow and medium-speed > broadband (up to 100Mbps), and can also be used at higher speeds with some > care, mostly regarding device performance. > > - Jonathan Morton > > -- [image: Inline image 1] Anthony Minessale II | President FreeSWITCH Solutions | 17345 Civic Drive #2531 Brookfield, WI 53045 Email: anthm@freeswitch.com Mobile: +12623098501 Website: https://www.FreeSWITCH.com [image: color-facebook-96.png] [image: color-twitter-96.png] --00000000000024502e05aef6f371 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Still willing to host a call on SignalWire Work if you wan= t to check it out.
I barely use this email addr so I keep forgetting to= check it.


On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 12:09 PM Jonathan Mor= ton <chromatix99@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> = On 8 Sep, 2020, at 7:48 pm, Matt Mathis via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net= > wrote:
>
> To be simplistic, you might just talk about cake vs (bloated) drop tai= l.=C2=A0 To be thorough, you also need to make the case that cake is better= than other AQMs.=C2=A0 This feels like too much for LWN, but silence on ot= her solutions might trigger skeptics.

Personally, my position is:

1: Bloated dumb FIFOs are terrible.

2: Basic AQM is good.=C2=A0 This can be as simple as TBF+WRED; it solves a = large part of the basic problem by eliminating multi-second queue delays.= =C2=A0 In some cases this can solve very serious problems, such as DNS look= ups failing when the link is loaded, quite adequately.=C2=A0 Properly confi= gured, you can keep queue delays below the 100ms threshold for reasonable V= oIP performance.

3: FQ-AQM is better.=C2=A0 That generally means HTB+fq_codel, but other for= ms of this exist.=C2=A0 It means essentially zero added delay for non-satur= ating flows.=C2=A0 It's an easy way to make DNS, VoIP and online gaming= work nicely without having to restrict data-hungry applications.

4: Cake offers some extra tools and aims to be easier (more intuitive) to c= onfigure.=C2=A0 Currently, it is the best solution for slow and medium-spee= d broadband (up to 100Mbps), and can also be used at higher speeds with som= e care, mostly regarding device performance.

=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton



--

3D"Inline
=

Anthon= y Minessale II | President

= FreeSWITCH Solutions | 17345 Civic Drive #2531 Brookfi= eld, WI 53045

Email: anthm@fre= eswitch.com

Mobile: +12623098501

Website: https://www.FreeSWITCH.com

3D"color-facebook-96.png"3D"color-twitter-96.png"

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