From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x1134.google.com (mail-yw1-x1134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E4FE3CB35 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 17:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x1134.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-32269d60830so525997b3.2 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee.org; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=0tA0pOEi5r0XcXJkDBLAPhtZMVkL8OaGQxG4eEKcLnk=; b=GYyFwZb8sVtyCjHT8+zDQ/0cIBRp2IO7bmkfLVPqO145WTrAmlpnQ1Rx6XqxagVvPE QwrypbeIucxQ6UGD8aSgpqg4SQdZZ9mrR2SINml5EzHHmBbZoZCLH1ub68+qv4Vd3Bqr 1C1nii/qgNYQk16Tlvi0yqVxtP+lMKBrStjeY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=0tA0pOEi5r0XcXJkDBLAPhtZMVkL8OaGQxG4eEKcLnk=; b=LvUdb6XF2I73SW5w/yosOPxIisw3mSioi4Z0Ug2SWJsQfnFuyA5gMdiTpFQD9QhjuN MvxRc3doQnxb2nBL5WIbXqUiUDGzd7ma24ApDvjdKL4SEbhDbhnLw+yvE5zrvuzx7ElZ Gk+FLUmEyPJYNDvV23J1xoSaVJMQ45GONB79T0TnDq8T8+0A7RC5OezUwJ8Wkfuqh2U6 3KH0g8alHInX1CoGy0Voukty2fqsrYtvl1+JQ5sHaz/Hf+becknBLD48SJQ1aNdtIUL1 GJ/ehBl/bTCOM8yA6YKmIMiK2GZpKAwMVfIp32cqYyjiZc2peeHUjkFimGHpUfS2hfWf JSJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+bcIytGTorv41YJ71a9vdBH1B7cMjKPuKzTt+PsNLiHetTabgB qpcroThu4nrQodpUHA95DbPdkBRsJ7BHrPLhVdOfug== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tgCC6XCoV/f2JTmolmrsj+ymztK75IVezczkm/rPDcO/YY63vezCcqXLVexT2soBFjrTtEqWYKt90apuPvPjE= X-Received: by 2002:a81:5a41:0:b0:31e:575c:a521 with SMTP id o62-20020a815a41000000b0031e575ca521mr21338813ywb.72.1658956508479; Wed, 27 Jul 2022 14:15:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Zili Meng Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 17:14:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: "gyn17@tsinghua.org.cn" , =?UTF-8?B?5a2Z5pmo?= , =?UTF-8?B?5b6Q5piO5Lyf6ICB5biI?= , Bo Wang , Justine Sherry , Make-Wifi-fast , bloat , lampson0505@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000062e3d205e4cfe916" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 08:31:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [Bloat] Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time Communications with the Shortest Control Loop X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:15:09 -0000 --00000000000062e3d205e4cfe916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for your interest in our work! And also thank you so much for providing the pointers on related literature! They are really helpful and we will look into these work later. We did simulate the FqCoDel using the built-in implementation of ns-3. Two of the issues that we found are that (i) some CCAs are not responsive to packet losses, especially for latency-sensitive CCAs -- GCC seems to need a loss rate of >10% to trigger the loss controller; and (ii) if the CCA on the sender is not ECN-compatible, additional packet retransmissions will further occupy the buffer space, leading to longer duration of congestion. We did not compare FqCoDel in the testbed experiments on WiFi AP due to the reasons above. We do hope to test with more cases and baselines in the real implementations in the future. If there are any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you! On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:08 PM Dave Taht wrote: > While I deeply appreciate y'all citing our work in this paper, > > https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf > > it's not clear if the AP with your solution was actually > fq_codeled[1]? We've also been battling a ton of regressions of late. > > PS It was good to see confirmation of long-tail latency at 99th > percentile over 400ms in such a large study of gaming users. > > PPS Perhaps this paper would be of use? > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=3D8469111 > > [1] https://forum.openwrt.org/t/aql-and-the-ath10k-is-lovely/59002/621 > > -- > FQ World Domination pending: > https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --=20 Cheers, ---------------- Zili Meng Web: https://zilimeng.com --00000000000062e3d205e4cfe916 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave,

Sorry for the=C2=A0late reply.= Thank you for your interest=C2=A0in our work! And also thank you so much f= or providing the pointers on related literature! They are really helpful an= d we will look into these work later.

We did simul= ate the FqCoDel=C2=A0using the built-in implementation of ns-3. Two of the = issues that we found are that (i) some CCAs are not responsive to packet lo= sses, especially for latency-sensitive CCAs -- GCC seems to need a loss rat= e of >10% to trigger the loss controller; and (ii) if the CCA on the sen= der is not ECN-compatible, additional packet retransmissions will further o= ccupy the buffer space, leading to longer duration of congestion.

We did not compare FqCoDel=C2=A0in the testbed experiments = on WiFi AP due to the reasons above. We do hope to test with more cases and= baselines in the real implementations in the future.

<= div>If there are any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact u= s. Thank you!
On Sat, Jul 9, 2022 at 6:08 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
While I deeply appreciate y&= #39;all citing our work in this paper,

https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf
it's not clear if the AP with your solution was actually
fq_codeled[1]? We've also been battling a ton of regressions of late.
PS It was good to see confirmation of long-tail latency at 99th
percentile over 400ms in such a large study of gaming users.

PPS Perhaps this paper would be of use?
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stam= p.jsp?arnumber=3D8469111

[1] https://forum.openwrt.org/t/aq= l-and-the-ath10k-is-lovely/59002/621

--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.or= g/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC


--
Cheers,
----------------
Z= ili Meng
--00000000000062e3d205e4cfe916--