From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com (mail-lf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC5393B2A4 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id t204so4783998lff.9 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 04:39:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yBPmk0oBt4HYRjCsuS7rHjgTFp2un9VNyb7F+AS4vGk=; b=U4VTLWJsGVwq1aJdSXEwlDkGyl0B2RnRB6xgnBRuli5wVJAyb6YSU1YmMampTLk2cK 6XDYt3UHFplMNSXKowyVp/eaGPwUtV7Yy9csrxR/ZzBG+LPD6SB2WU+uGzX1EftboJou P90SLItlfXaq731luyPezI4BEfYG/N6K00alR3A4eHC95J4eLQo9iWrwUQKC6hjDOe9g hn75F+IIzs5hHRCZvzb4WhKKpvpcR4wDuTOesF+pQZtKinJD57MWgffoh00I6jyRvYva KeaLMRbjD5GuHshy1anBnR9Hyt4Ry2X/SOA7+n76bdd+Jf2ymF8+q0I25tRjy592cYlY FL0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yBPmk0oBt4HYRjCsuS7rHjgTFp2un9VNyb7F+AS4vGk=; b=HGyLylwvioW4UygDNEhgpRU2Gk574gviegWaL7hzpVGmqG0oUo6o+K9SNcvMlB8kEr 8KDEUkFoItEAvbtdQV+FGzwMcfy8XQCTDodVXZVD7nj8XqzDzNqbkQyiyQXZhB8Jpv1f vDdiyjNexlsSBCcp11M4JfM2dwCWM9YbxPaFKP1pX0wH8JCcfSNfoLsHFCxP/oS6HB6R RsGbqwE+W9gWqpeZQFuoKjP8upI6wQTpPzT2zN4jIIPy+iSErSP7pprh4GfJjKfpQU3t zQlavTKq6Y5mPT+2GDGvySN3ynJfZMWvI7CrIfKSlbeqwO3zlzh/AcJPEAR7Fbu8cxm1 50Ow== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPB1Ckg58qhRVoyWzsGXw4hLRoyJpdT4/+S1RT9bwgccHRyTWXa6 EQVD/FiQOH3XLn7y8LlQ9Kg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227nx6X6c8cqzVZGcYtnnNBtuoh8KTbrn5kvffQ5VRx4F+I+uw9T2PFCZJ6gOez8fgFMsm6SsQ== X-Received: by 10.25.190.200 with SMTP id o191mr6426278lff.120.1518871190698; Sat, 17 Feb 2018 04:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.239.216] (83-245-242-123-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.242.123]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z3sm2693707ljb.71.2018.02.17.04.39.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Feb 2018 04:39:49 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 14:39:47 +0200 Cc: bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1518444596433.8187@telenor.com> <3F24DDBC-E1B0-43EA-AEB7-4E2CD3E1FCC5@gmail.com> <958881B2-D432-4B98-9743-3499BF651EFF@gmail.com> <23D08E00-54E2-457F-AEA5-A5E23C00D61D@gmail.com> To: Jim Gettys X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Subject: Re: [Bloat] The Blind Men and the Elephant. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:39:52 -0000 > On 13 Feb, 2018, at 2:13 am, Jim Gettys wrote: >=20 > There's still a bit of polish maybe possible. I'd like to get the = idea of "there lies madness" into the stanza on economics. How about this: But count the cost, if bandwidth had No end, money-men say, Perpetual upgrade cycle; True madness lies that way. To keep demand in check requires Each byte a toll to pay. - Jonathan Morton