From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493DF3CB35; Sat, 18 May 2019 18:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id k8so9246591lja.8; Sat, 18 May 2019 15:57:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lew4JmQdanTJKm0Pk3NlsC/a4x7/hob9ZLL1ikdFSrs=; b=T3vdztQacQigQjEgYYfMPK/m/6PQGCOAdoCxWZxXC3tLBlO9fj4p1tbebiIJ7QkF1c kb81KWxpax/yCW99EajkcvswEwdGdy6ntx9eHalj0zNybs8yq8GGlo3S+s0ASRdZFTo4 I3p7XGqfeYQsXcNZ/Vm+i/1KSVTxkRvdgfgxk52KX8GM2OAp5MotW6uuJcCwd8ysIGJv 5epAz8rU7LLpahc0HStePzJAcIqP/MCj6axox8FNSpxGPH5/y+6O2T+YWe+XU4o5izXO qOUPb5oC3lFtlhIjvKdewbyA8pJIawHE/Bll10wjpMRTQL0romcCl/oYJ7wDnIadFtgr aH2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=lew4JmQdanTJKm0Pk3NlsC/a4x7/hob9ZLL1ikdFSrs=; b=XoQPGyDhTqNRa620eQe0x6MdtXwyJ4IPBP64QlFq3RLobeyXvop5BisMNH5QawBCc3 gOH0LKDjKVS/owNGjZeBxtleTG7AIHFUffVUBslbWrSFkY9StZYPrcz/NwnTDqFkdNEY /5cV3ZYl2zJpaW3djAP+T6DU9I7OFikJ9ZWx4orqLjVxcBGis5izigbDiPqXn425Q11z Lnaq8T+ScYR1QijYMwCvJiOadbSgTxWJuxo/O8SXO5wbXbW7LMx7Uvoz7yZB9e5Ga21W 3+MTSNjFFvrOY+YY0DmIgFTOl/gAC/zFZATA4fjibmP5LkIZUfE8sjyV7iRlpMa9gC0x IpyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW76aLSQ2H+eOG5O/+Lfp75ZPGOnpALRYVbCCuAq/QsMu8s3bNX Adw+57/4pSTa/s9tokjLSXg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyhTK4Un5iaVRNoog0RC5/pMcP4jW5FDshQDwVHiaeyr+QNKvYmfsmzTa52tLcdg24RtE7U5A== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:81cf:: with SMTP id s15mr32319985ljg.193.1558220245134; Sat, 18 May 2019 15:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (85-76-21-226-nat.elisa-mobile.fi. [85.76.21.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l15sm2407989ljh.0.2019.05.18.15.57.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 May 2019 15:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1558219006.29034759@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Sun, 19 May 2019 01:57:22 +0300 Cc: Jonathan Foulkes , Rich Brown , cerowrt-devel , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <2936.1557856670@turing-police> <1557859131.759530583@apps.rackspace.com> <1557871532.754117608@apps.rackspace.com> <87lfz81x7b.fsf@toke.dk> <1557876841.69888745@apps.rackspace.com> <25460D05-4F53-4317-9722-2878B160BD7B@gmx.de> <2D23494F-7B4B-4426-AC57-8CFEA993D60B@jonathanfoulkes.com> <1558219006.29034759@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Bloat] (no subject) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 22:57:26 -0000 > On 19 May, 2019, at 1:36 am, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > Pardon, but cwnd should NEVER be larger than the number of forwarding = hops between source and destination. > Kleinrock and students recently proved that the optimum cwnd for both = throughput and minimized latency is achieved when there is one packet or = less in each outbound queue from source to destination (including cross = traffic - meaning other flows sharing the same outbound queue. This argument holds only if time-of-flight *between* nodes is = negligible. Trivially, a geosynchronous satellite hop adds only two = nodes but approximately half a second to the one-way path delay, with = potentially thousands of packets existing only as radio waves in the = distance between, not in a queue. - Jonathan Morton