From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C25543CB4C for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 04:00:45 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1625644840; bh=9xCgISf6X6HcZTsJZfhvEycg6mLWcB5pAohSqBeuL2c=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=HOjXEv1i/vNH7hNRvG1LRKd/DHGV96+RF+dcRCekqx3yRNjCAn0kIWBt6OjCko66H fsYkuzgfHjmnX+lRBnJy0AatUgEIkQdQ1Eijr4VQN9PcH68hmutNAK3cz6uWREq0qQ C1tK8USro+YCpx93/HPf/ZcYNw4wbmhD2BcHdVH8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.250.105] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N8GMq-1l5vgV458C-014BJm; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:00:40 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <25880.1625582779@localhost> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 10:00:37 +0200 Cc: Jonathan Morton , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5C8DA517-01DE-477F-9B3D-952D953EEC89@gmail.com> <25880.1625582779@localhost> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:iGJ+Cnd16OUKOMMiXn2gRcwUNTBowXtlvYolYEXqB7l3kGoqZSY PnK970D/gcDejp8WdWHxP6MwiRss6QwD7C4gEsIzdlIuC2Lert8YmgdohMa+MYz7eNsQf9/ RuIv/je5VhbxfgjRr5agAofGTrb0kRNWfcS4BgEi5+IHupUBRuCvcarbQBBPBW/IsPKYc1Q glOLAa0uxBsxsrWnJ5edQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:57muPj746PE=:8bxeyaVgM3vajLefepsy0p lmK0ARy5atCvl2VQTHFvoZIjIx8fr9sm0YRedOOrVjyvbx7euuFYwAxPSOk3CsSJLzft6+ov2 /HQbjwXnI8zHLVGL4W3UxrMQWIfmqzJWGgUNuOmEqf6t12PWLTP3GcWdRVa6kbcFA4qzikvjw o7qNHdSMv4IxgyARzQqY2n3Hv/RVqEmfGK38h7OaMNJyxjl0Q0EU6X7QbPZQL2hBZYNtjhD19 Dj3lxRbxGBAeAcgW5T7qi7wMOZojOrKe9oG6CjwbBPr6zSbHxtRLBH8cEift1eTFLTyBackQ9 e4p/L50jgIuJUgPoaE9jNmDUiOclgWmU6hmroY/7OvEaGEak2/mBO1ZSAD380y/KI729pyWl6 0RmdJhDX+II9vH9QGHesmRJDOXVPnXH4p4g3okpRXG5jTMU+beIXbhX/eyj927aGpJbxLwHb6 tMaPZOJcaxneDFz/weXLRhCdHXj7bG4vyy6UHzErn65tzXJa3q/a8RXIr1hJfYtSKKPwP0mVP Mi3cmUZWlyaJwrpPplXhmHeuOBkPUTo85JkbPAKVuawZf2qUMGnf2WWl3rbXY336KWTbmRImC 5LXZHv7dj0hBL+cCV1LkP6HEyksNlStIaB7sjbUzsTk1VfybwCuurLGkO1XbjxJSMXnvGqTit 0E9j5lOobKJn+6YbWh9oUgZgOVcvV3eG7297qaaWAQPplpyCRUtLbOqQAv8Vhx6h7D+GpIY2c HpWS+SoSSVK8tKvREvWoQOA8wthOhJGygDNMXPI56pGig6mQNXPHMgDJmOIdwvcmApnBU4NUI Kw71G0VwZiATXZi9QRWDnv0m1M6I61Ug/WgatKDi9I25aAK/oK+25rsYkm4yietOzzN002VTj ArklgM6rtCju1BErTAY7JsPSb0pjeD5bF8UEXN1cGT5cXxefEiqEI8j/sKv5byIjzyo5glzuG LzYnm6/uLtLXLT8kbj7H8msNnqU+3meVYb/WP/vFm99O5IsdZ3X1n9CHXtgasYs+VfxlYwQms Luy39gvZDRf+VNcTiefinhu+HNitfByGjH2dbLDs/cLUByre0T+79GQZSKhKLQFIpsoBoD5wH ZU5h4Utm9jKaLTjEYBgPABVGaWE7af9Y8FP Subject: Re: [Bloat] Credit and/or collaboration on a responsiveness metric? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 08:00:46 -0000 Well compared to simply using the "raw" latency increase under load = number and describe this as a cost or price (so everybody intuitively = understands lower is better), the frequency approach drags in a not = strictly necessary division. That raw period/duration nicely avoids all = the issues that appear once the period/divisor gets (close to) zero... = Also, I like to think about delay in terms of havin a budget (for = specific use cases) and I think it useful to be able to decompose that = aggregate budget into terms for individual delay introducing steps. But people clearly did not flock to to raw RTT numbers, so my intuition = apparently is not useful guidance... > On Jul 6, 2021, at 16:46, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Jonathan Morton wrote: >> My idea was simply to express delays and latencies as a frequency, in >> Hz, so that "bigger numbers are better", rather than always in >> milliseconds, where "smaller numbers are better". The advantage of = Hz >> is that you can directly compare it to framerates of video or >> gameplay. >=20 > Marketing people will get this better. > They already know that higher-Mhz is better :-) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat