From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14CCC3BA8E for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 03:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id g3-v6so8946416ljk.12 for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 00:20:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jbD/4nP/dHn8pfLV1rBbdh5Kf6hr3WvnGlZXGOIlsJQ=; b=ITZYQOuIUZGWfoYTnTKrl5GAOfvrDGhk8w+gEnqBGx4dbLmgfcd+MCv5fJ0OXw4t57 oCUhKgyBmU3jwT1enyNU+sBRuzezZ4/RHHXFdxEn9reRNV5f1Ve5xFQQBm685VBNVTCR reb5P+EifAdgd9Gau+xB+K7sVBjiLwz280gM4qQ9t6PZS5OEgSRifdd5XHdHfaka6wWP 2ko3mDwK5xrHM/u6PTeQ5WviRIwXEeJpKKn2rTW7yKJ7qRFP9HKG8QmrVyKXTtLMyCMp 4mQJXnkFCaGH5u8+m4nWUoAKXEypL508U1jrACCMQyFfVRiazHqKzP/5zgXPsxoZMM/a GqjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=jbD/4nP/dHn8pfLV1rBbdh5Kf6hr3WvnGlZXGOIlsJQ=; b=K47mtLc/C7mZlJMb+kT+cPRgnDRNMaGk5YjaS3oXWhOhu3CpDh5BjY1sG2+bP1Mxb+ Vq4ypbhNCcDKs4auukaQnHKDuoBHQ7aB6IP7t0uAUDgASC/up3p6QawaOdqP44ZIRf/n /PqMfHTfbty7nrXGHLNLXvj9sRn8MFQPl4QwBC5kUljpaXIa6AIuJJm+ZOn4dsq9BzPS QsOpV0C4YhbEzgsgDC3uPfkCgHJOrt89XLB2KMAnNm5vVcf/OVmJuYe+VMBnLdlmPRBT VG2PcTTEnWQQI2o7gRwgL3MYuhkkvsAxG6K0ogFAvQ7lXSO3qsFmdgVnsbhBzZRhQNO8 WD3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3sUhUzF+jX3JX4CcFQY2wzoM74bYRdRD5bQayP+G0t2sVCm8e+ F51vmEuF7/JWyVGnIpXHVPI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfc/sCnqh0p76CRnGIbd7HWrtP0mmJMxhSXz7jXqulPvoL9HFe3tnXJzh5zRix1k7PNhE8b3A== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:1bcc:: with SMTP id c73-v6mr4294471ljf.0.1530343217051; Sat, 30 Jun 2018 00:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.239.102] (83-245-234-223-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.234.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g17-v6sm1846283ljg.27.2018.06.30.00.20.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 30 Jun 2018 00:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 10:20:13 +0300 Cc: Sebastian Moeller , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Jonas_M=C3=A5rtensson?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) Subject: Re: [Bloat] powerboost and sqm X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 07:20:18 -0000 > On 30 Jun, 2018, at 9:26 am, Jonas M=C3=A5rtensson = wrote: >=20 > In the flent rrul test, up to about 10 ms induced latency can be seen = during the "powerboost" phase but after that it is almost zero. I'm = curious about how this is implemented on the ISP side. Now that is a completely different result. It looks as though the ISP = has *some* kind of smart queue (could just be SFQ) attached to its = shaper, but not to the link hardware itself. During PowerBoost, until = the bucket fills up, you see the latter's dumb FIFO instead. To understand whether the ISP is using SFQ or something that actually = performs AQM, you'll need to get a packet dump and look for ECN marks. = The pattern of these might also reveal whether it's a Codel-family or a = RED-family AQM (the latter including PIE). - Jonathan Morton