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From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
To: Richard Scheffenegger <rscheff@gmx.at>
Cc: Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@vyatta.com>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCPflavours - timestamps?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:18:39 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E457F76A-BBD4-47C9-BE22-F69BBE69F4BD@cisco.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3F2F5E9B-C710-4C2F-AF99-CDF7C314A50A@cisco.com>


On Mar 17, 2011, at 5:05 AM, Fred Baker wrote:

> I'm very much in favor of ECN, which in all of the tests I have done has proven very effective at limiting queues to the knee. I'm also in favor of delay-based TCPs like CalTech FAST and the Hamilton and CAIA models; FAST tunes to having a small amount of data continuously in queue at the bottleneck, and Hamilton/CAIA tunes to a small bottleneck. The problem tends to be that the "TCP Mafia" - poorly named, but a smallish set of people who actually control widely-used TCP implementations - tend to very much believe in the loss-based model, in part because of poor performance from past delay-based implementations like Vegas and in part due to IPR concerns. Also, commercial interests like Google are pushing very hard for fast delivery of content, which is what is behind Linux' recent change to set the initial window segments. 

I didn't say, and should have said: I'm also in favor of AQM in any form; I prefer marking to dropping, but both are signals to the end system. The issue is that we need the right mark/drop rate, and the algorithms are neither trivial nor (if the fact that after 20+ years Van and Kathy haven't yet published a red-lite paper they're happy with is any indication) well documented in the general case.

  reply	other threads:[~2011-03-17 12:19 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2011-03-15 10:36 [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCP flavours " Jim Gettys
2011-03-15 14:40 ` Jim Gettys
2011-03-15 16:47   ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 17:59     ` Don Marti
2011-03-15 18:14       ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 18:31         ` John W. Linville
2011-03-15 19:40           ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 19:59             ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 20:51             ` John W. Linville
2011-03-15 21:31               ` Rick Jones
2011-03-16  0:32                 ` John W. Linville
2011-03-16  1:02                   ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 22:01               ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 22:19                 ` Stephen Hemminger
2011-03-15 22:26                   ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 22:36                     ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 22:40                       ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 22:42                         ` Stephen Hemminger
2011-03-15 22:52                       ` Eric Dumazet
2011-03-15 23:02                         ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 23:12                         ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 23:25                           ` Rick Jones
2011-03-15 23:33                             ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 23:46                         ` Dave Täht
2011-03-16  0:49                           ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-16  1:02                             ` Dave Täht
2011-03-16  1:28                               ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-16  1:59                                 ` Dave Täht
2011-03-16  2:23                                   ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-16 22:22                                     ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCPflavours " Richard Scheffenegger
2011-03-16 23:38                                       ` richard
2011-03-16 23:50                                         ` Rick Jones
2011-03-17 12:05                                       ` Fred Baker
2011-03-17 12:18                                         ` Fred Baker [this message]
2011-03-17 17:27                                           ` Dave Täht
2011-03-18 18:30                                           ` Richard Scheffenegger
2011-03-18 18:49                                             ` Fred Baker
2011-03-20 11:40                                               ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-20 22:18                                                 ` david
2011-03-20 22:45                                                   ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-20 22:50                                                     ` Dave Täht
2011-03-20 22:55                                                       ` grenville armitage
2011-03-20 23:04                                                         ` Dave Täht
2011-03-20 23:14                                                           ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-20 23:19                                                             ` Dave Täht
2011-03-20 23:23                                                               ` Dave Täht
2011-03-20 22:58                                                       ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-21  1:28                                                     ` david
2011-03-21  1:56                                                       ` Wesley Eddy
2011-03-18 18:27                                       ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion ofTCPflavours " Richard Scheffenegger
2011-03-16 22:07                           ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCPflavours " Richard Scheffenegger
2011-03-17  0:10                             ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-16  0:47                 ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCP flavours " John W. Linville
2011-03-16 20:07                   ` Jim Gettys
2011-03-17  2:26                     ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-17 18:22                       ` Rick Jones
2011-03-17 21:50                         ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-17 22:20                           ` Rick Jones
2011-03-17 22:56                             ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-18  1:36                               ` Justin McCann
2011-03-18  5:51                             ` Eric Dumazet
2011-03-15 16:34 ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-15 18:13   ` Stephen Hemminger
2011-03-16  5:41 ` Fred Baker
2011-03-16  6:26   ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-16  8:55 ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCPflavours " Richard Scheffenegger
2011-03-16  9:04 ` [Bloat] Random idea in reaction to all the discussion of TCP flavours " BeckW
2011-03-16 22:48   ` Fred Baker
2011-03-16 23:23     ` Jonathan Morton
2011-03-17  8:34     ` BeckW

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