From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38B233B29D for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 04:32:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1665736377; bh=VVsE7F1XHHY+oKGFAUHIQlQEfNqVv7dxy6cIpqQp7LY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:Subject:Date:To; b=DgtNaSg10TSG6viMsjRdTZlLWDgnEFusnZsLGcq5CveTa/KVTtXPygrZDWq89YPLu heUku5JLPqVwGd/izUA8yM02osQbVIDjE7FCEVnX2sywXMO1h8ulzK5zl4L91WwZfp cGmunjcN4Q1J2blMb4bAMXtK1iFLFfvOzfBSygFo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N2E1M-1p9KgI3uXe-013fke for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 10:32:56 +0200 From: Sebastian Moeller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 10:32:55 +0200 To: bloat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UA3shppbwu6SmVSvqx4GSgrilZURnl1ucXxZYT/Kki26/cwApgQ xo7vv0+uR1F/dmZEQ4Ba+AS73oj2R6JPhXoPCT5jHKTiIwc11NPu1L00iKHQeplgJFMLVv8 VBsNSuQb7IokG2P5FZo2XzAcjPSS7o+A/+chz1Opm+x9rd6Z4jhqgSGSmWCGj4oEOKa++5y 80XG+7AOkFs2We2mWVwTQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YPdSpAX46Mo=:fsL9kYpxlkIgPTREVLJdFb rbzLCRsSEfMIG2spu+yV/ZG+joFucdsTNMt8TUA9JSf6egjpSWXgfPpDkzVkJSAEdUlbHlovr ZAsKBZ6YOw7GM9E3IxdESxGsQJQUUV4MY+IEZu+J3q5I0kMbEvnqni1PEEzgNuZOmyAjkZF+P YYLlXof1tGl/TPR5S/axVEDN9fg+Y+MxAoFe3rrMisPzRStLk2XkH+eP2i6oLN0J4fv08QGVn 1Q/dfoAdtlh0drgv0DEmCNLykFa3N8ax6m49eB2mtcDr/Dqoa798EMw8BPTO7BoPXEBeNc6lR flquae4waCt5E7IkBCZ8maHHrFCAKiXjCevgflnww2/KdGO2WwEhOC1rHtO8Xj1IVdR9tdPnH y9k/mFEBuTPZ2mRnKw4cNtAIpJOhexg61EID0kSiSlcjOgHteZqwXn2Z9sz6G8X8py/vkj83b yhftS+swE6NAYmafwbUeuALUcMAmteiIJrYIoaytullS87I8MZvpH3aOU7D2kkXJguA1CaXJI vaJ0DVeAazMURuP8hOA2J+CPC7jw2nEzGTwD04SCIN8bzSD1AW9W/tgRwhXRXXNd+cORmfczi EOBz1q/GuEHcOnm0OOBimFXpyVIgsxzt4VBzhrbYvsu2bkG2xCeAgjB/dBgshfc1IZFGkjZsP RVrfWWzVwLNpI0aMAc58ST8GdPaNfd4/Y46mlm1XRgdjsdldJO48ENQZNemJiLc63VlERdFDg DAV+JpZezZku5BvdfKlR4nGuVF7TR6Dl1IgwIkZO0HpyCMIm85IpRnZcScimKptH7Xzk7YHmU CSEFASRO4wen6zJ9Y8h6UmHPXbSwB1OZFYdBfZnm8pG6Sciop/3iSU73xu18suPbeRjTQ50RF M023N74L+K0thAeCiwugEJTjU5IyRGkzeKE1aQDupq9rkeJS4/B0BJq0efsAUzie7rKj+5TAH kGompYXIPvqd62vgR6gP5xsshLiEUxp/P1KscJ+juoRDoXYxd1edO+pWtj0/sP1/TjG8DFxh6 k8fiOayYx6aAZADSksF1T1kA2WFaCfUrPdJHLGSL8R+INTD4ONnWffsG8bZEavQAWnariLrL/ UuUcClKiSsQb1yfjDAzfWt21+dHHPimU3ITQvq0fjVY6bQxXNJLtslPERJHV/gpopgJSK0RrI j9E9jZ5vHO2koxxwlZGYxipKDxb9TuqdpUjVQ7AG1lhoaFjyJHaK7G0nJ+CysVTpPfzUx2zeo pp/DOA5aEqtFiJc5rZ+N/XWmE4GbwZvpZWeYtT16FKRA+IEVkm4qvlOX5k5WaCPQvAXzbQNDj AXZVTZTaQGKZDnulfdWTqc6N5PpqM+yesemqkcehe6FBGOoZBqlKV/7XtgB/29903mwgiST8G 2bMB7s6FEhTrAM5T8EmHp7/7Fe01yjwRi88z8iq41YhpE6SjyOS2OyOk7RKkwfdBl56rcztSS WW6I0+2JmV9lf9sWnxf63x5uq57U0+9i0gFOHYHUYD2TAv/obEmBeVF2nt+DUXRW0sqOK3p0+ Nka7Uc7UwFYHV4wnwqJL7sM+Y6Re7JWFOKnXboXBkjzWn Subject: [Bloat] German Router maker implements and demonstrates ingress shaping X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 08:32:58 -0000 Dear List, in the spirit of some things might take a while, german router maker AVM = just published a Video demonstrating the new ingress shaping feature of = the firmware that is described as offering some sort of = per-internal-host fairness (video is in German, sorry): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VCQnzHt5B0 The demonstration is't 100% perfect: 1) Demo without Ingress-Shaping:=20 Sync ~97: -> 97 * 64/65 * ((1500-20-20)/(1500+26)) =3D 91.3769533219* Speedtest: 85 FTP: 91-85 =3D 6 2) Demo with Ingress Shaping: Sync: ~100 * 64/65 * ((1500-20-20)/(1500+26)) =3D 94.2030446618* (the = sync improved by 3 Mbps in between the two measurements**) Speedtest: ~60 FPT: 94-60 =3D 34 So the expected share would be ~94/2 =3D 47 Mbps. But realistically = going from a 6/85 =3D 0.071 ratio to a 34/60 =3D 0.567 ratio is likely = to improve things for end users more than improving from 0.567 to closer = to 1 would. I have no clue how they implement this, and I also do not = know how a tricked out cake with "ingress dual-dsthost rate 100 overhead = 26" would perform in this test (as cake with ingress will not = necessarily equalize) Also they claim they can to set their shaper rate to > 99% of the true = bottleneck rate which according to my/our experience seems quite = optimistic. *) I assume standard VDSL2/PTM here but excluded the likely PPPoE = Overhead simply becsause I am not 100% sure their ISP uses that **) Ingress shaping requires to disable the hardware offloading and so = the demonstration modem-router had to be rebooted in between the two = tests and hence a different sync value=