From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-1" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 496A621F283 for ; Sat, 2 May 2015 04:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hms-beagle-5.home.lan ([217.247.216.138]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LiDnn-1ZbY050zFT-00nTWy; Sat, 02 May 2015 13:49:26 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:49:33 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <87618e6gkm.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <58258E43-953F-4A3B-ABC0-EA4193CC67C1@gmail.com> To: jb X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:HABWp8s9vqyy7IQ1Bkeh7OrN5eVcR0v8RhUwROvV0jJBojklzWE Pig8/B683CnSDOUjlaZr6PicAEYExIb6Ap+5PhNOEWjUD+4oCMjvWlN1jvdAFi/FokxuU4h nyCrp7J5CoPTnuZJMTdFk+sRmrTqAjtgfd5bBTn/A7U6SJO/eNwQTjY6sCZo8tYtx+rcM4G UD6W6Hfn7ZFw19OEPS6LQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] extremely good dslreports result for bufferbloat on free.fr X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 11:50:07 -0000 Hi Jb, I wonder the ping RTT plot, does it show all individual RTT-probes, or = is it showing an aggregate measure per bar? If aggregate which measure = (hopefully the maximum or something close like a high percentile)? Best Regards Sebastian On May 1, 2015, at 08:31 , jb wrote: > >This got an A+ rating, which I would not have given it, given the > enormous load spike. >=20 > I think there will always be the occasional incorrectly graded test, > this one is simply because the median of the downstream latency=20 > ignores the spike. If I used average(), then it would not ignore > the spike, however one very high outlier could also ruin a good = result. > After all, pinging anything on the internet can always get the odd > bad response now and again. >=20 > If neither average nor median is any good, then there needs to be=20 > a filter function. But what filter? ignoring spikes that are hugely = higher > than neighbouring ones? that would fail if there was a spike every 3rd > sample. Open to ideas.. >=20 > Here is a result from the australian telco free public hotspot: > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/399962 >=20 > On the side of the hotspot it says 'send us your thoughts about this > free service'. Well my thought is that if one person posted a picture > to Instagram, the whole hotspot would be unusable for as long as it > took to upload. 6 seconds of buffer in there somewhere. >=20 > cheers, >=20 > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > This got an A+ rating, which I would not have given it, given the > enormous load spike. >=20 > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/400387 >=20 > Imagine if your steering wheel behaved like this. >=20 > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM, jb wrote: > > Already users are like "how can i fix this!". >=20 > The FAQ can be improved. >=20 > > I've just replied to one who has lower speeds on the surfboard = SB6141 which > > is a modem designed for crazy cable speeds. He has an "F" and his = downstream > > bloat is terrible, and upstream not much better. > > > > I imagine a LOT of people on slower plans have a "recommended" modem = like > > this one. >=20 > I have not found a cable modem with less than 250ms bloat at 50mbit/5. > The docsis 3 ones > are often in the 800 ms range. >=20 > > > > However most of them will hear that the problems from bloat only = happen when > > you reach maximum upload or download speed and will think, well, I = can live > > with that, I never run my connection to capacity and I don't upload = to > > offsite backups.. >=20 > Latency spikes are annoying no matter how they are inflicted, and = happen > all the time on nearly any workload. Your test is testing tcp in = steady state, > most web transactions are bursts of dozens to a hundred flows in slow > start. >=20 > It is the business class customers that feel it most often. I have = never > visited a business class cable customer that had reasonable amounts of = delay > and jitter during business hours. >=20 > After living in bloat-free universe for quite some time now, annoying > issues with things like netflix are decreased, voip and = videoconferencing > work all the time, same for games... >=20 > it would be hard to create a metric > for user satisfaction, but every before/after comparison someone > implementing a solution is quite overjoyed. >=20 > https://twitter.com/mnot/status/575581792650018816 >=20 > > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Rich Brown = wrote: > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:33 PM, jb wrote: > >> > ... > >> >> if it did get a rating it would be an "D" or "F".. > >> > > >> > How about "E" for error? That can be further explained in the = text > >> > "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot adaquately test for = it - > >> > and other times there is something else badly wrong with the link = that > >> > we cannot identify." > >> > >> I would stay away from a letter grade for that state, since it = could > >> appear to be on the continuum of A+, A, B, C, D, E (?) F... > >> > >> Better to give it a "-" or "?" mark. And if they hover over the = "?", let > >> the text show: "Sometimes the bloat is so bad that we cannot = adaquately test > >> for it - and other times there is something else badly wrong with = the link > >> that we cannot identify." > >> > >> Rich > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Dave T=E4ht > Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** >=20 > https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat