From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A7E63B29E for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 04:37:30 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1571819847; bh=Wj5xhbTHWWa/2AjvcnMCVC6LAwk0cvDHx828IB7+TIQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=EnrGiPM2Fo6//oOiZrVEIleMvrpO0Ha+V2Hhr2jxnj823HrZ0MX8nIfWfjKZRZ0Ok At+WkfdCLCBKXGwTjLCKDXMfU8JMqZJR2WlZ/EItQIpk3y+7ienEKbSQ1Z+kkOK6kW 1eZW7dNTvfin75ZeuZMAiTvJN5A71BOGo7E432DI= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.11.12.33] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTzfG-1iWeKD2oyY-00R1SB; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:37:27 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <1571815685531.95922@telenor.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 10:37:26 +0200 Cc: chromatix99@gmail.com, grobier@icow-systems.com, bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <775be8cd393d47aabdac5097e9ae054c@icow-systems.com> <51AC6A1E-FF96-4B9C-B322-4EA986AE4BAA@gmail.com> <1571815685531.95922@telenor.com> To: erik.taraldsen@telenor.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2+lyBjbzu1/T49FtSfY9Pp3s51ODWHxuzgNjqK5WRgygQcMYjgd Riz2GOsWEbA36ra5TNw73rv5+vHVfhc6YxJYMLakp2sVXlqmxH43LIXYB/YaEIpfV0+YEzc PuK+CSdpLxURiwtUyWEnrR4xjZDK743yakBWNP7R8YUT4opm2RcL1Y7CDjD74xI83RIYvSa RYvgLzbd1Hu4aFzSVvjZQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:FsN6IpAzIF0=:GJZSp6hXkBuwIOO4W+TRe0 HOR0Y1s9yEFEyQy5kT+f74LKvXAsDNFJsUWF5N+ygABoIJhlyMejpdyDONXb/SAP6iOJODgVK LfcV/zETeB1Kv9FsWsHbOpz1cpDLiU3h2LvLuUq9uMS/XnjQQZLNhhfe0fCK8VQNry1tQpeYq G6dmOgCReP3bSZQkeRdErMaIc40INdiohwemd688v4VbKwEwy2kKeDUW66MciPSmOYqX89aLw bB5Hkqf2V44NIjoyg773o+7mqkcst8ygNh83jQJ/7NvVJgtAoK4E7pELdhRw20z822YXnKySQ 5EOpR0iG8zCatB5xnYE8nLvNx2XkPLElcKlhJQolOTdi/ENnEE9cH8L1bMKe5IOYazkCGNxL6 WjqTnRJ0gouTM5M8LVvAtd1uCHTDcVjIRq/zVGlehA0oZYqSQdINLyoUp+C0nWq4iqxOG6Msf QTu8rt2LlkiZY0ZT8ETTDeDHNGXVdArk64Zw7gp+aQRH075SVqnJ2DLoU2ycMFqWox1OoohZ5 3rwFILzH231lwUo7buMh3LTYQ44zRBSsB6/9MZwlOYwV7ZhWcRioio3R93EAbfK71//YVf8NX 9djYqVwiIUzUK1/20QIaaSM5IrsujbAmNhYaOe8jB/4aGLZdM7eZ01X5QBdwzqsBGPdLJZPDe 9dDrV5qiI1GUPQTl6E60/Kzkexei06PVX0Q1KNrUcQLiG/e6MJDeQy8+CiUmsKT1p9JKrqTCJ 3fZD+RGeWmHjvKQgKyA7Eb6vdgzcLX+1g9dJe5usrIxOyYblojH4zkFbI16MCwuGIaCouJ3aA 3WHSTDoPyUYdf3+e1XhrjuMkTilhlTh5YhQ7vzesDw+zYxDty8hIwxkKuFU0Z51s6JjeVzvTH cfiviuXoyanzviZ1ufJifJ+wKOWBI7t6sCi4SNi1lwVB/7nrUjWueZgv1sYueLg5loM78P0Vs BOsUorDmFgYSaxP/S8LgubyETm28sXdlWH/twnyS5I8dWbUSLUPryYngUOK7M6wPbM/y1/COo j/JL6TRg1db3utAG5GfEefez9bn1a7b3K11QI5s420Rrj0E+91ATYF7AgsbB2LK4fYQHlanML Knun1S1xqty9X72nLxBSzFr/nGUjSA/JGpS9tE3orka47IfzWaWokllymuP9wqLYfb/CSUHd4 R3w0cdOyF6cwBWvCsRs9NY4sZAKAOLtj6+ed01dgjJDRqI1BJ8Obj/7QUxShZf/SO/vAOCoTz 4FebpuwVIV8vZdGt0tSTVvoQjl2ResoAKI0/+Mg== Subject: Re: [Bloat] Bufferbloat on 4G Connexion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:37:30 -0000 > On Oct 23, 2019, at 09:28, = wrote: >=20 > If you could influence the 4G vendors to de-bloat their equipment, = would you recommend BQL, L4S or codel/cake? IMHO, something like BQL would be great, as would codel/cake in the = devices.=20 L4S however, has not been thoroughly tested and hence should be = considered research-grade at best. To my knowledge none of the L4S = papers/thesis so far have been performed bi-directional saturation of = the network, even the PhD thesis titled Destruction Testing: Ultra-Low = Delay using Dual Queue Coupled Active Queue Management). The IMHO best set of L4S tests at = https://github.com/heistp/sce-l4s-bakeoff indicates a number of "rough" = edges in L4S that should be addressed before considering a roll-out Personally I doubt that all of these can be fixed within the restraint = solution space the L4S project forced upon itself (avoid flow-queueing = at any cost). So as it stands both codel and cake (and especially the fq_codel = variant) have proven their usefulness in the real world, one of the big = issues with both is that unless the transport interface implements some = thing similar to BQL both require a computationally costly traffic = shaper (cake has its own shaper built in codel/fq_codel need an = additional shaper). It is not necessarily sheer number of CPU cycles, = but that they seem to require low latency access to the CPU when ever = deadlines approach, to try to put things to simplistically. Best Regards Sebastian >=20 >=20 > -Erik >=20 >=20 > ________________________________________ > Fra: Bloat p=C3=A5 vegne av = Jonathan Morton > Sendt: 22. oktober 2019 23:02 > Til: Guillaume ROBIER > Kopi: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > Emne: Re: [Bloat] Bufferbloat on 4G Connexion >=20 >> On 11 Oct, 2019, at 5:56 pm, Guillaume ROBIER = wrote: >>=20 >> I am new to this mailing list and I discovered the bufferbloat in = December 2018. I work on 4G routers and the bufferbloat is very present = on this type of link (4G). I contact you today to find out if people = have experimented with solutions on this type of link or have = configuration suggestions, because the classic fq_codel or piece_of_cake = and pie do not allow to fix the bufferbloat. >=20 > This is actually my own situation at home. My solution is to insert = Cake shapers on both upstream *and* downstream directions, and adjust = their bandwidth settings according to variations in available 4G speed. = To do this I use an IQrouter, which is basically a TP-Link Archer C7 = with custom firmware. >=20 > One of the difficulties with 4G in particular is that the link = capacity varies a great deal according to both radio propagation = conditions (weather, obstructions) and local usage by other subscribers. = That means the right bandwidth setting for the small hours of the = night, when nobody is awake, will leave you with a lot of bloat in the = evening, when everyone is both awake and home from school/work. You = will need to measure these trends and set up a bandwidth schedule = accordingly. >=20 > - Jonathan Morton > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat