From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x22a.google.com (mail-lf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92A7E3B260 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 14:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id t196so104052864lff.3 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:02:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nY/HRbBlicIKMbPXWfHrPNLFdOaihlLN2MiBqziDa2k=; b=lj30DFHqofibZhVp8U0Iev5PgOz2+oJZHM4vxciT+2o5AevDgdowCj6TvlgxMa1w5p fn5OB6BgFYI2Lb9yl5QSsT1BkYRGo2KjmKwND838/D4N4grS1HBz5oczy6bhn4wM3hIn rEhsBCmejzvMqfkas66kiWtH58m1qyFLDMlCTWs+KNLOgATf9TcuqoZAU20dLbGwO0FE pyQmmH30obKmcuuaRF7W1W9OCBmP+3rUh3X9qitjaS9uXnsEX1eex3Ov8K+1Kl5eVAgN nk+7sNLSp7quRTBtFB1xjNLy2YATYTSY+U0nqZrNx4KKgk05Gv99/ewhAW9DZDnE3r/5 j9pQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nY/HRbBlicIKMbPXWfHrPNLFdOaihlLN2MiBqziDa2k=; b=Q9aSEsqTp4RG7sj4QVKSjoMoj+IvVZ3GuUvRMNp2cmk1JLMGDrhRkJeY7Mi00JxGL1 N9/ZZ9AAM89/Ue/XMu02k3R+JwTA0tcP+rsY3NlWoEAa8WSqNn2k6M/53Bc/6rYZQl04 9EcIijeC6K/2aAUv9062B2C1acFSqsv13coLCZKYsL5GeXXk8ZEr3wacGMzVgL+rg+1m 8c6bu3bqtbiYOYdvJmCBimxRDEeqt75Uj8x3llBzZSiSApl1xaFz8S1N2899Z6c27/Yc /cBI9UwS9XEMgzeDJELRpP7kxkR50dlsQZa3f+HTid6tVBhmbnL/FIZEvxhZC4rc6oLO ADeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03237f5s7KaY9jXDireIzm/WP+YSyjHU1UdrSA6h9sYYpdyqjpmNizmdO02e561SA== X-Received: by 10.46.77.92 with SMTP id a89mr10525659ljb.28.1480359748308; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.100.13] (37-33-82-144.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.82.144]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o84sm13231804lfg.49.2016.11.28.11.02.27 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Nov 2016 11:02:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 21:02:25 +0200 Cc: Stephen Hemminger , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <548F6875-8670-4784-8A4D-9D4E6F0F20BD@gmail.com> <65cde0ee-4cc8-22c8-5274-a4eafe9cf338@pollere.com> <229474f1-841f-60f9-0c7a-e613adac12fc@mti-systems.com> <20161128085856.23ddfd70@samsung9.wavecable.com> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 19:02:29 -0000 > On 28 Nov, 2016, at 19:07, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > (as well as VR ones) VR gaming *is* pretty hot right now. Even the consoles are trying to = get in on it, though I=E2=80=99m skeptical if even the just-upgraded = consoles have the horsepower to really keep up. The big thing about VR is that latency and framerate matter about 100x = more than they do with a normal, 2D-projected game, because the realism = factor is stepped up by using =E2=80=9Cnatural=E2=80=9D movements to = control viewpoint and aimpoint instead of interpolating a mouse and = keyboard. Most of the (reputable) VR headset guys recommend a solid = 90fps and absolutely minimal input-to-display lag to avoid motion = sickness. To put that into perspective, most monitors on peoples=E2=80=99 desks = right now top out at 60Hz, and the equivalent responsiveness of a = =E2=80=9Cfairly good=E2=80=9D Internet connection is 20-30Hz. = Fortunately, the latter mostly impacts the movements of other objects in = the game world, not the player himself - but there are counterexamples, = especially in competitive multiplayer games. I=E2=80=99m still keen on representing network latency as its = reciprocal, =E2=80=9Cresponsiveness=E2=80=9D, which carries the same = unit as framerate and is thereby made intuitively intelligible to gaming = enthusiasts. Admittedly most multiplayer gamers are by now familiar = with =E2=80=9Cping=E2=80=9D in milliseconds, but they probably haven=E2=80= =99t done the arithmetic to relate it to framerate and thus understand = its relative importance. - Jonathan Morton