From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 843A33B29E; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 09:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.128.56.3] ([221.162.103.114]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LdKs1-1gJKN33ewD-00iRri; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 15:06:53 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:06:46 +0900 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Mikael Abrahamsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:tPl7W5kPZZMaomXDiy9rLX18GXBZHd7U5w66E1JJGzPL+vm/QLb Dnc0PSkboCU1ZZA4bgXXbzniIuCPK+y+PCFryXXSvJDWookJ4Xskgd1xzkauqrCmx3JvD8g 97a3AzqKihb6DoxtkFvgoX+MFzjZFSG17JGQdwNHR9bvWbecDPhAB23hvKqDpjaaOoP43wH fu613QOG2GwdbJR3j9oKQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:xErdAPqZq+Q=:pVW0mwtdO8evLpDU9c4Ca1 eTCtE0NphLdmnFVJf9D0pLAg0E9jC/UWKkbBYO4RUBQm3fNKMsw3EdMX3gEB+sm/zmu99Vq76 6AqBVFqS8TQ/uQXYhM8CYq8vIWo5RObivAOJV2fGMsLteZJ809svCdGpJPTU2NdkGPTAH0n1j r2PFP7p36CNJINd+S61OxRcrcnDu4E0WE01cuHub1YxNazWmhRTtmq/lM4yf/qAY/e6e6D2GC ZsYvt03LCBho4DzisNhcWmFGZoCjfugq9ZTgHNZpC34NUQXRsKWGY++KIxOzoTAJLnze2ve80 TL7O+4bAwO8cAnfyL2y0Bj3mwAd9K3p2iZYqywL1cYceacP+ujMf39lcO93DIjCgdpEYVJ8D0 9gXA/eljLv+F0W31JaexI7+xnmmessikHMEzoUbI/ljj0jYubsRXO5ou05CXt1xNCQgntX4J5 pmetzW4BI3q1tz9gvX2CfC7ZnBS2JCzm4gi4IyEJrjffBe1RuXyZhBHti3OaukxuCg7aRaNHM 1qEkHuNFvRxFcnRAz0CH/lRSd0egI2jXt+diKRGOnXDefBbFpBvn54Pn/XvJ03uerXDC4Gjfb gXTXa5vQw/UQThoXdShGwfEKUbGkyc+S7tlAM+6xIRtsZwFk3JUhnBTc1iZdx1YM3ESa5MQ+R q0/uJeLes98yg0gqMz+G+dc8h1kQGtJIBFY3Wn1urIBP+YwfsmG5m/Q5sx0lFOP/FCWHeeB+m /VflqWUef3haePJfsfBHkgHL9HXzwTfJ0IT1I9w7cKNblrhcy8jrTZqLrTufXlR+GbTbKHxrF m3QQioB Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] beating the drum for BQL X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:06:56 -0000 Hi Mikael, > On Aug 23, 2018, at 14:47, Mikael Abrahamsson = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 22 Aug 2018, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 >> I/we really should have beat the bql drum harder over the last 6 = years. It's the basic start to all the debloating. >=20 > It only helps with kernel based forwarding. A lot of devices don't = even use this, especially as speeds go up. They use packet accelerators = so the kernel never sees the packets after initial flow setup. >=20 > So you need to get the people developing that silicon to get with the = program. Or we could convince customers to stop buying toy router's that = only work under a severely limited set of circumstances and opt for = devices that pack enough CPU-punch to be actually adequate for modern = internet speed tiers, no? Now if the packet accelerator is jus there to = help save energy for typical cases but the CPU is powerful enough to = handle a modern line with all the bells and whistles customers except, = then I am all for it, but if the packet accelerator is just there to = paper over an anemic CPU... Best Regards Sebastian P.S.: I ignore issues of cost for ISP supplied CPE devices here since a) = most ISPs I know actually charge rent for these devices now b) should = have enough volume to drive down prices even for devices that are = sufficiently fast for at least the 300 - 500 Mbps class of combined up- = and download.... >=20 > --=20 > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel