From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A678E3B29E for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2025 08:27:51 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1738330070; x=1738934870; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=aKXvVsqMVYFwIMBPbZRhjezOsqafMxQhEVAAKUNJA0E=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id: References:To:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from: message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=b2qIOxacqJL+29DXjy/FnoLUlej+TbKI6FlRZ0fyDaq8WZEricNcCe3bMAgILMfS TSRVzeIt70n6XzVjZ/elEDzsnyRWZtE96TpOVO3gY5sJPaQJJoobh4mAviFIbcVWo rq7mEtVvoTnbpKVa8tW6Y5y1Wbq9cPwuXyGZ9bnMML3sOrVjMnJEhPJl3zPp982/q lpJNrsp9Q9XM/VqM6nhjXhdlx13YxbBrm+mDSsF9kYcLVCju6Z2b1GkcTOOpWS7M9 UpimOouDlkRwL40ye2k5t7yt/vUGC6O7ogVYmK2ikdG6PO2yyALw04f+jhhIVNxv2 aNvLexfL+6kV1xpJRg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Ml6m4-1tA2Ys1tee-00gyw6; Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:27:50 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <48F77C27-0E57-4F96-9BD8-238CC93342F8@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:27:39 +0100 Cc: Rich Brown via Bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <48F77C27-0E57-4F96-9BD8-238CC93342F8@gmail.com> To: Rich Brown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:CWV7rimJ+axMRO9tUQZwAyCMt4Dg8AnUitSX8cCSOZpcFi+ZzMg zdDMSZejLXJZqnq8K4Rzk2eyZufiIWrxdzzv7Ne7xIocYTIrXg3u1gTa2ss4rtkR2UocN7w rbqLoTrabQOiZx4A1K9kplVG8aOMgmdWQOp2E8Na+e0+abOSzFS6sGIsozqJaGtu0sSIQzn 8sDVe/98Ji+Zvyiu68UIg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Gc5CN/1Pdys=;6ZrPYSwko6BNOYFAcqAnLQe5tJz 1h16hiNdFLnJZHd67f2Q61AcEXx/g5O90yO6vWyfv02Ctq4UEm/t5ZNu7y4TH/Wc33gPQbVxO icwD8EEnyK8raRjNO3ABSD5Cmmhu/sEO034hI2QB0ekWuso/O5dv7cQBvb1PQFZ7KiuZWC+Ks C34bHtk3ZfQn43rD6zLH45w5DrmX5qVaquBAIo/RWIKtSzpf55ZUGNKaImXYpvjuzaAq0elY/ +saZEOSy5s3ylQA+Vf7AZjZhFGhQ1ZWGEv5mXMwz+ixT6izeNnWb39w6YGDag2D6gqssz2R2K jK//eBJyUCm6vwCTKdx4FRSfvwV3auaEgKgoIRKFycOOTpvROoIllMbYEidtcYp6reidtc0Ij JvRfHZeGS3gGFyG92URxePxyKFU4b3hx5FVwjE9Ikz5fkgnJRZz75rYk7PUgZBzFWp8kBdWdt cupNo/U+2aYKVPy8NRTHlsoEHuq/hAQyUDEuHNTWtkFoZC1Mz0p5DXPegUJwIdcwIL7BAGa0o VcjDHqEyTbF/iw05C/mW4orKdTr1w2UWzntKERRK9piD+POWEtosHsGZAweLuypb3EQY7pCkJ z5rN3BzcbS1wvP19Xaf7Qo1m7wT/naQ5hQOLIrhXRcEE29eIckQohCscFL5HodR5a4eE3V8yg X6ctm88yQVfH7DuSp6zXSnpQMnyv3/cjolVhigMjdNGQf9DVDn5Oe42mKG8CUQWkf9Ch4PxBL QSwtuIxJk+/dTfCM9LYfHX0ut0xUve6mvYSJKdrmmQ/Zcn3p/sNF60WXgInG6KfnhgHMQoSF6 NrWpuTTQ7zgseekRRUIPKWVcjCHVb77jQ4+1jM7u5Ul0YcssXfrHR+F9yTvHy6ZZHi6mVZOdn 3bmsdOgC9vsqF99zEp8h3nLGmqSD/9dLwjS9Je5NyzzXrCeolewW9zj6VQjVAw6MMuekzOemw 7QO0qawfDI5bkmOHfS0CTKN5SiK21cDJCOJeJV8EGdfcMBIfTj1+7yZXcbcfpwmZe+tX+C9t5 1kxxaVkMGGF5uXK1I4yeumt84+RfXwvzqB7fCo4Y3vVm6d0IEhyHZZW4ag/yLRfzIZytLkZS7 TQqDi+CM3h4dLZ7IrWltVtJTswBVCSNrqfY0NGBj4wqEcNESmS05lI3z7vcn7upjjJBYrANwC 97YatpPPyQhY/dSsVmkMdHtr19Xa0tLG8iPbA0Yy3H3TXg6hqNKgYpduNbO6V0FOkxgBQtOoY ig2eMcJyv603YJtCxFhbf/E/AnmPCHAxknNSMf45K8AOukaK9SFtvSP0GnilWjC/1qVBRoJY5 kJyGNUZTYBIzDIE+qkjPPTv9icJRd93WsMDvUp8qTJJBgwhdCr+zfoUUWzKHmzCv6WF9kIGht jV+i8HeD6Ax0S9GQ== Subject: Re: [Bloat] Comcast & L4S X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 13:27:52 -0000 Hi Rich, > On 31. Jan 2025, at 14:20, Rich Brown via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > Google Alerts sent me this: = https://www.webpronews.com/comcasts-latency-leap-a-game-changer-in-network= -performance/ >=20 > Key quote: "Compatibility and Ecosystem: For L4S to have a significant = impact, it requires an ecosystem where both the network infrastructure = and the end-user devices support the standard..." >=20 > Can anyone spell "boil the ocean"? :-) >=20 > Or am I missing someting? Well, the whole safety mechanisms in L4$ are laughably inadequate... = this "design" essentially exposes a priority scheduler* without = meaningful admission control to the open internet. This is so = optimistically naive that it almost is funny again. I wish all the = effort and hard work to make L4$ happen, would have been put in a = reasonable design... but at least I learned one of the IETF's failure = modes, and that is at least something valuable ;)=20 *) Just because something is not a strict preempting priority scheduler = does not make it a good idea to expose it blindly... a conditional = priority scheduler with e.g. L4$' weight share of 10:1 already can do a = lot of harm. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat