From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C85B3CB38 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 09:12:59 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1721049178; x=1721653978; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=LdE2C1YMe+aUjdq/YmHWvUu/HULMHhoRdG7/qx0XD6I=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id: References:To:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from: message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=saVMPPQi4vOS8upnVp3uIgo9mnW7V/v/3sexzowoPBjW47+HgXHmSUL1eseod5jj wGxMdJoCDTBDVbS0kQuMEWeJOazBVAGDuo39ouuu8MfRe4GiKWrK5Acq+Sj+CnOzr Aj1JWXP8o9u5kvuAZYNVc/YpoS2GTAHuqjkGdS5Z0mlU5u++MVtQna8ChUp9YoXPN jU0S3N3Cw/vmic9kiVVFU8IL6o+koNm121lFCX1A3hNTLpnos/kdF1qjLwqm/a9Gx NfKxZ26bNhChKEjUrQOgxiVd3gt9Qs8UYQqWPlMFYFI5ryW5pG/iSQYayGamFJd6k UEpPTopKXj3tlAMj+A== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.3.100.29]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N5mKP-1sIp4j06vL-00y0YU; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 15:12:58 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.600.62\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 15:12:47 +0200 Cc: bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9B529996-9FF0-4487-8F74-B01230E6FCA1@viagenie.ca> <11567.1720044376@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8d89d7ec-558e-4498-9457-3c6dd90eb03f@rogers.com> <8FBDAF2F-DF18-4FFD-A589-EF2323B6820A@gmx.de> To: David Collier-Brown X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.600.62) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GDqEyVj8I40lIc2i8GobPy/BWMR87r7Q7Lsqh7ihZrmDzZ0xENn vAEemqr/xX84utl9o4OeoExhjVhw2oPaMtlkgvrOXX7zLBGZOB5i74RTIcKE2Z34E6Smw1y 0Dfry6+gnoPn7MMONawBREKk/watJqmA2u62UUBAqtbGTYTJqB5y+DE+rzcYSXWwaLDsJgE sHoJRoQZ4nPJJkQBD1Msw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:E32AfY4MCEQ=;IUBbEaeA4wxWxMQooJEANZ3G/oc sklUwlul1FAGLrK8AiGShMELOzgyu2utDOx5mqOWW5bmRdk1cUD5vYHr8XUG1hazXJG/M6Pq6 5CQxEHVU9F0vA1OWWGz0InFmirCjNcHMRjWetQr5NqkAklbOcERCjv57LDP14tca8iG/BxSF3 gHNyYndifluleE2Za4/ZWk31DVYuaddrcxSmzfA3ikJgwlvvNpgDebuYiUGTaS/ZGdLBw+WyP /9aZaCth5SpOh4socwZ8/vb+fHZltwge449xbv2rWSK2eBHeH8txoTvShJ4T9GL0EipVMBfOX gEF5rEXdSRh0LtjMEluE5Jz8VIUl2l66AtsftH0TZ7URAe6gNRegBhRimuIbBX8VPVrYe22cH sD22WZHoGs+ggxCgxiHAJYyO+sb0dsDDVt6/DSdrFWTg1Kjm/koedOvd9NFqyFWaIAs48ZZ5X Y022BLtqya+Ik1FzF6Vn9jCFcW0AWVN5iAeRGP9hil1y9IBsvAMsxzCBdxB6mLMIIqcR8ZGOF dRIqigZJvaZLJYId45pkkr3nR2vl6ztw/DQ4aKAR9ndklMjzTaNZiJ8Qgdo1GO/msKdguFTus TNSx2Un3m0WKZiJwAoOs4AlYNyboT81vurIhF/fcAqntnZ/hsSdRvDjiGv28CA1stF8CgLxgu 2/31MNKqXeMGOFkJEw6VVtWo7Xy8Avaeb0xjJxKotynv6uQyNzoxNr6iUzJpTNJOLgJS0ydbE oQVXOJga8hBNxf8sucRPZECiBCEM1zuONPiKYOGdceE1gbnobd2m9V43emaYHTWItlrv86TIA zM0ymfJj2aGSOhluewNLOz5w== Subject: Re: [Bloat] An ACM Queue article about bloat and LibraQoS X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 13:12:59 -0000 Hi Dave, > On 15. Jul 2024, at 12:59, David Collier-Brown via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > On 2024-07-15 05:18, Sebastian Moeller via Bloat wrote: >> Hi Dave, >>=20 >> nice! I only would have wished for the A-grade waveform result as = well, it is a bit of a downer that the last figure show the unpleasant = 'before' status only. >>=20 >> Regards >> Sebastian >=20 > That was a deliberate action on my part: the "after" status shows much = smaller throughput numbers, leading observant readers to ask if = improving latency didn't destroy one's bandwidth. [SM] Ah, I see. But just for our discussion here, how much = (potential) capacity did you need to treade in for decent = responsiveness? > I suspect that the throughputs "with bloat" are greatly exaggerated... = from counting the extra data that fills the bloated buffers (;-)) [SM] Good point... especially for upload tests, I occasionally = see numbers which I know for a fact to be impossible (abovre the gross = capacity of my access link) and I wonder whether all tests actually do = proper reporting of the grand average capacity numbers. This should not = be rocket science: take the start time of the first maesasurement flow = and the end time of the last measurement flow and divide the total = number of payload bytes trasferred by the total time this took.=20 >=20 > --dave >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> On 14. Jul 2024, at 23:30, David Collier-Brown via Bloat = wrote: >>>=20 >>> I have a new article on ACM Queue, at = https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3674953 >>> "If you're an ISP and all your customers hate you, take heart. This = is now a solvable problem." >>> It's part of a tongue-in-cheek series called "You Don't Know Jack", = and it's about Bufferbloat and the LibreQoS project. >>> --dave >>> --=20 >>> David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify >>> System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest >>> davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 > --=20 > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat