From: Greg White <g.white@CableLabs.com>
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>,
"gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk" <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
Cc: Vint Cerf <vint@google.com>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>,
"David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] [tsvwg] [Ecn-sane] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 20:55:20 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <FDA48F4C-415B-4B8E-9CC7-2AAAD4DC3BE8@cablelabs.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <F62C4839-0489-475F-AD8F-58913EEEEC0F@gmail.com>
In normal conditions, L4S offers "Maximize Throughput" + "Minimize Loss" + "Minimize Latency" all at once. It doesn't require an application to have to make that false choice (hence the name "Low Latency Low Loss Scalable throughput").
If an application would prefer to "Minimize Cost", then I suppose it could adjust its congestion control to be less aggressive (assuming it is congestion controlled). Also, as you point out the LEPHB could be an option as well.
What section 4.1 in the dualq draft is referring to is a case where the system needs to protect against unresponsive, overloading flows in the low latency queue. In that case something has to give (you can't ensure low latency & low loss to e.g. a 100 Mbps unresponsive flow arriving at a 50 Mbps bottleneck).
-Greg
On 3/20/19, 2:05 PM, "Bloat on behalf of Jonathan Morton" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 Mar, 2019, at 9:39 pm, Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Concerning "Maximize Throughput", if you don't need scalability to very high rates, then is your requirement met by TCP-like semantics, as in TCP with SACK/loss or even better TCP with ABE/ECT(0)?
My intention with "Maximise Throughput" is to support the bulk-transfer applications that TCP is commonly used for today. In Diffserv terminology, you may consider it equivalent to "Best Effort".
As far as I can see, L4S offers "Maximise Throughput" and "Minimise Latency" services, but not the other two.
- Jonathan Morton
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-03-20 20:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <AM0PR07MB48198660539171737E4CCAB1E0730@AM0PR07MB4819.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
[not found] ` <d91a6a71-5898-9571-2a02-0d9d83839615@bobbriscoe.net>
2019-03-15 10:46 ` [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2019-03-15 13:01 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-15 14:06 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-15 15:52 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-15 17:01 ` [Bloat] [Ecn-sane] " David P. Reed
2019-03-15 17:45 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-15 18:36 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-15 19:23 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-15 19:32 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-15 19:44 ` David P. Reed
2019-03-15 20:13 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-15 23:43 ` David P. Reed
2019-03-16 1:26 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-16 7:38 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-16 18:56 ` Michael Richardson
2019-03-15 20:28 ` Jonathan Foulkes
2019-03-15 20:31 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-15 23:45 ` David P. Reed
2019-03-16 9:42 ` Michael Welzl
2019-03-16 10:08 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-16 10:23 ` Nils Andreas Svee
2019-03-16 14:55 ` Jonathan Foulkes
2019-03-16 21:38 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-16 21:57 ` Vint Cerf
2019-03-16 22:03 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-16 22:05 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-17 18:07 ` David P. Reed
2019-03-17 18:05 ` Vint Cerf
2019-03-19 1:06 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-19 3:18 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-20 19:04 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-20 19:58 ` Stephen Hemminger
2019-03-20 20:05 ` Holland, Jake
[not found] ` <5C9296E1.4010703@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
2019-03-20 20:00 ` [Bloat] [tsvwg] " Holland, Jake
2019-03-20 20:05 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-20 20:55 ` Greg White [this message]
2019-03-20 22:12 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-20 22:31 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-20 22:56 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-20 23:03 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-20 23:11 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-20 23:28 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-21 8:15 ` [Bloat] [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-21 8:31 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-20 23:30 ` [Bloat] [tsvwg] [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-21 0:15 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-21 0:41 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-20 21:48 ` [Bloat] " Greg White
2019-03-20 21:56 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-20 22:38 ` Holland, Jake
2019-03-20 22:56 ` Greg White
2019-03-20 23:29 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-20 23:51 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-21 6:04 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-21 7:46 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-21 8:02 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-21 8:49 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-03-21 13:24 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-22 12:53 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-03-25 2:47 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-21 8:45 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-24 20:15 ` alex.burr
2019-03-25 1:34 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-03-27 17:52 ` Alex Burr
2019-03-19 4:44 ` Greg White
2019-03-19 5:35 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-19 5:52 ` Greg White
2019-03-19 7:10 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-19 8:07 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-19 8:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-19 23:59 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-20 10:17 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-16 22:03 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-16 22:09 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-17 14:06 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-17 17:37 ` Loganaden Velvindron
2019-03-17 17:40 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-03-17 17:44 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-17 18:00 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-17 19:38 ` Rodney W. Grimes
2019-03-17 20:50 ` Luca Muscariello
2019-03-17 21:51 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-03-18 4:26 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-16 4:04 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-16 4:51 ` Dave Taht
2019-03-15 18:07 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-03-15 14:27 ` [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
2019-03-15 14:44 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-03-15 15:49 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-03-15 21:34 ` Wesley Eddy
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