From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6F773CB37 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 2020 14:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id y11so3234112qvl.4 for ; Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:27:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:reply-to:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=pe+aIo4lgPAINek5MRbedPWhz+NLzJfWHf3Mf5TIeg8=; b=hIGuReQYMPWpBpOyEai7NQ9k3ojiGGh6+CatM6F+HZJiSMvA2tC8UNIrnnnJgJTNzN oQRikDfM6wUZwdlL03AGUEy73tDkw115ut49YU04r8rzsg/mEGAq9vDJHqGqju0DieEJ hCQXDR9w0iVl4/C9FDTfKkeGnxLaImreokdWIcrEPgwGD2cwFqlHj+LoL2LfCyNKqDr9 d187GS4Kpq/VIeyNvys7aK/E+oEZebRsrIP0pt1tmlAzV9VnrPylF/pyjdS9Bt7Qgvrv YHwPJn3PQHkJ1gxbK6nSF/Jv9ssGr0ll6T4+Pdw8+jLCOxQ6SVgijOTHOM5MmdPinGwQ O6VQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:reply-to:to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=pe+aIo4lgPAINek5MRbedPWhz+NLzJfWHf3Mf5TIeg8=; b=iBeqLdtP2R9m8W/E7uTbPGbgblgvZJ/BzB8ZphWsjVzVP75ai8fFXeKxl+GFiXVkI6 2TcH+JBe7HGcJbaDwikopKECw1zft/zVZdytd5w8yIL8oy5c0lOvPsSVwnmyF0Ecor9c x7Q4sguA+vD/P+qcGVIxQFEu9LbIKsUVS+lNcumocMbXiU/jm7GAW65WdIXyVqhSM2t9 R4rpastKC6M/uygLpsXsqdtHQ8DXTT5X/vjJWFpmc3yd2+MTJrJv4+8wBcKxqZB4zJlp D9P6oYjDgu2HK1xcDzO/gl7h1dt37+kFSYhdO8h8zLrfNphWrCzRFXe2f86kiVhExjw1 y8VA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532DLwzjtQRgvBrnngwZMXlpHTVVisn8NeSR2ZcQnmpVB8v+OF4U ysx0RN5yR7/CvW001CWkJcM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx20YEvJyjI6fNanQGybfAXrz6BwMt90/eneMfcAeuFqaoHs1rzKS6cb64JSXaRk+8luDHnRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e8c9:: with SMTP id m9mr25147565qvo.178.1596997638349; Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2607:fea8:561f:e34d::5c53? ([2607:fea8:561f:e34d::5c53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y14sm14211671qtc.84.2020.08.09.11.27.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:27:17 -0700 (PDT) From: David Collier-Brown X-Google-Original-From: David Collier-Brown Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 14:27:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Subject: [Bloat] How about a topical LWN article on demonstrating the real-world goodness of CAKE? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2020 18:27:18 -0000  I suspect not enough people are aware of the later efforts of the bufferbloat team, so I'm thinking of one or two articles, starting with LWN and an audience of aficionados. The core community is aware of what we've done, but in my view we haven't converted "grandma". Grandma, as well as a whole bunch of ordinary engineers and partners of engineers, are dependent on debloated performance because they're working at home now, and competing with granddaughter playing video games while they're trying to hold a video call. Right now, my colleagues at work suffer from more than a second of bloat-related lag. They therefore tend to speak over each other on con-calls, apologize, start again and talk over each other, again. After a little while, the picture becomes a distinctly silly one: a bunch of grown adults putting their hands up and waving, like little kids in school. No-one has called out “me, me, teacher” yet, but I expect it any time. I propose we show the results in terms that we can explain to Grandma, specifically concentrating on functioning VOIP. I just upgraded to Fedora 31, and the networking is absolutely stock, so I make a perfect victim/guinea-pig (;-)) Who's interested? --dave -- David Collier-Brown,                     | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net                  |                      -- Mark Twain