From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm27-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm27-vm8.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57943B2CF for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:41:41 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s2048; t=1480354900; bh=P4k8u+0M5JVHf0RmJ7gMtLQR1tX4DJud+cqRZe4f9iw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=JkByU3nZy0ixMXB2B4nPF6QcOZye6SjgrKPWYOdvoFjiT2SeujEILHQhTFDpH6hm6i8Aoq1tLFkInf6ip6VLNBi+PfdyGjYOmNKbYpYnIzmiz+sKUHYimgD2iXHQnfyPMQogntGuig/Wjg+abaDziKhogB7FKQ2U6MKSLvsiSLnbBbJ0X8OaHQ2w/ZrFKpQ7NRsKm5B0KGbf+i6pt5P/zRqoirD3HT7z8o4t+qpbDS+jR1EoCs4z3HgfRYTNz/oEL4k+Wiy+hze84h9uVQqjYCP3/LOB6lc9ufZhq0EdrXyPsCxguZHOCfJSjCnru/v41qPKL5txW4A7FZkW3UbyTw== Received: from [216.39.60.173] by nm27.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 17:41:40 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.145] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 17:41:40 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 17:41:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 297006.27573.bm@smtp117.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Kw_MwdMVM1mU8uSqrWYXgE5T.vL3P6ccgm6a642zX1UKvUT mKwy03UoFcSPUZZg7LnHIw1kigFIRgZWSOohcE_Jj9i_JDINRArDUCa95BN9 zhPCee64v8kEc5Ka8RfBP3fX4aCOfybFmWR8ti0bR_wQDUtA1BoOvDWx1D2k iOE7zSzQPN_n2mW0X9ZfCeu.QgZxUv3lRIYmWdoyrd4JyXZsIjG7O6wOOdS5 yfIWlz6.iUDr1GV7PrmeHyl1Jpypc8cu5GvizR9dReP0W.E.EWWuhDi4nI1Q AT1riwu6gOiXEO36pBEG0OE_tQdxEHy2oBhVg6qWToM9vBUxliLFYiSuWRZu U5jVLR2H5ly_pdFyt6G7ONaeC5.HG6msA4x1tZtHgKF1E0bB6RLxSrjoGFok Lhl2ItElHOW3tCuI6E83BqEF926aXIaIzZ7owmvjap6GZ1uCEAIjEKoG.xr0 VYvnueBRfInFEfqifrNz1uFCiyMTMGhKXl30inJS7lvWcsd8oay8iO8NIOV8 HAaRO0JTJjsE9ZWtcPEso3N74k_bd8m_XyZNQPcl0htP9jMcxlRUKto5jqqa gjphRYFfDay6E5T51GCAas4Fl X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net References: To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net From: David Collier-Brown Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:41:39 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------46C98329FB7D9643AD825DF1" Subject: [Bloat] How to "sell" improvement (was: COTS router with OpenWrt) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 17:41:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------46C98329FB7D9643AD825DF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Put the speed-test /into the router/, with a big red button to turn fq_codel on and off. * The performance reporting graphs can then run on a browser page for as long as you like, while you do other things, and go back to the page and see what it's been like. * Have a line for "perfect" performance, and anyone can see how close you're system is coming to it. * Have a button for a synthetic load test, of some shortish duration, and, * Put it on normal Linux hosts too, so you can test end-to-end. This has the advantage that it's code-first, so you don't have to convince the uninterested, and from it you can write a small and limited RFC to tell everyone else how you did it. As each new improvement comes along, actual performance slowly gets closer and closer to the optimal performance line... --dave On 28/11/16 10:21 AM, Jonathan Foulkes wrote: > Thanks for the Introduction Rich, and thanks again to you and many others on this list for all your contributions over the years helping to combat bloat. > > This product was born of my own frustration with finding a way to help neighbors and family get a simple off-the-shelf solution that even non-technical users can deploy. > > I look forward to participating more actively on this list. > > Jonathan > >> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rich Brown wrote: >> >> I have been exchanging a few emails with Jonathan Foulkes from evenroute.com. He tells me that his company is installing OpenWrt on a commercial, off the shelf (COTS) TP-Link router and selling them on commercially. His "secret sauce" is an auto-update facility and improved setup software, which includes a rate-detection step that operates continually to adjust the fq_codel parameters to the actual line rate. You can take a look at IQrouter.com, or look them up on Amazon. >> >> This might be a solution to our current conundrum about not having an easy solution that solves our family's networking problem. I'm going to get one of these and try it out. >> >> He has been following our bufferbloat and make-fifi-fast work closely, as well as the work on LEDE, which he'll consider once it hits a stable point. I have invited him to join this list. >> >> Welcome, Jonathan. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain --------------46C98329FB7D9643AD825DF1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Put the speed-test into the router, with a big red button to turn fq_codel on and off. 
  • The performance reporting graphs can then run on a browser page for as long as you like, while you do other things, and go back to the page and see what it's been like.
  • Have a line for "perfect" performance, and anyone can see how close you're system is coming to it. 
  • Have a button for a synthetic load test, of some shortish duration, and,
  • Put it on normal Linux hosts too, so you can test end-to-end.

This has the advantage that it's code-first, so you don't have to convince the uninterested, and from it you can write a small and limited RFC to tell everyone else how you did it.

As each new improvement comes along, actual performance slowly gets closer and closer to the optimal performance line...

--dave


On 28/11/16 10:21 AM, Jonathan Foulkes wrote:
Thanks for the Introduction Rich, and thanks again to you and many others on this list for all your contributions over the years helping to combat bloat.

This product was born of my own frustration with finding a way to help neighbors and family get a simple off-the-shelf solution that even non-technical users can deploy. 

I look forward to participating more actively on this list.

Jonathan


On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been exchanging a few emails with Jonathan Foulkes from evenroute.com. He tells me that his company is installing OpenWrt on a commercial, off the shelf (COTS) TP-Link router and selling them on commercially. His "secret sauce" is an auto-update facility and improved setup software, which includes a rate-detection step that operates continually to adjust the fq_codel parameters to the actual line rate. You can take a look at IQrouter.com, or look them up on Amazon.

This might be a solution to our current conundrum about not having an easy solution that solves our family's networking problem. I'm going to get one of these and try it out.

He has been following our bufferbloat and make-fifi-fast work closely, as well as the work on LEDE, which he'll consider once it hits a stable point. I have invited him to join this list. 

Welcome, Jonathan.



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-- 
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
davecb@spamcop.net           |                      -- Mark Twain
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