Re: [Bloat] The Dark Problem with AQM in the Internet?

[David Lang <david@lang.hm>]

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On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Dave Taht wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jan Ceuleers <jan.ceuleers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 08/28/2014 06:35 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
>>> When a message is lost due to an error, how do you determine whose fault
>>> it is?
>>
>> Links need to be engineered for the optimum combination of power,
>> bandwidth, overhead and residual error that meets requirements. I agree
>> with your implied point that a single error is unlikely to be indicative
>> of a real problem, but a link not meeting requirements is someone's fault.
>>
>> So like Jerry I'd be interested in an ability for endpoints to be able
>> to collect statistics on per-hop loss probabilities so that admins can
>> hold their providers accountable.
>
> I will argue that a provider demonstrating 3% packet loss and low
> latency is "better" than a provider showing .03% packet loss and
> exorbitant latency. So I'd rather be measuring latency AND loss.

Yep, the drive to never loose a packet is what caused buffer sizes to grow to 
such silly extremes.

David Lang

> One very cool thing that went by at sigcomm last week was the concept
> of "active networking" revived in the form of "Tiny Packet Programs":
> see:
>
> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.7143v3.pdf
>
> Which has a core concept of a protocol and virtual machine that can
> actively gather data from the path itself about buffering, loss, etc.
>
> No implementation was presented, but I could see a way to easily do it
> in linux via iptables. Regrettably, elsewhere in the real world, we
> have to infer these statistics via various means.
>
>
>
>> Jan
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Dave Täht
>
> NSFW: https://w2.eff.org/Censorship/Internet_censorship_bills/russell_0296_indecent.article
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