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From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] DSLReports Speed Test has latency measurement built-in
Date: Thu, 7 May 2015 09:24:17 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1505070920280.32169@uplift.swm.pp.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAJq5cE09gB5vaspA2oahLL5+pLazy+SNvSr9R0f5wKbRFva6wg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 7 May 2015, Jonathan Morton wrote:

> However the more common characteristic is that delay is sometimes low 
> (link idle) and sometimes high (buffer full) and rarely in between. In 
> other words, delay samples are not statistically independent; loss due 
> to jitter is bursty, and real-time applications like VoIP can't cope 
> with that. For that reason, and due to your low temporal sampling rate, 
> you should take the peak delay observed under load and compare it to the 
> average during idle.

Well, some applications will stop playing if the playout-buffer is empty, 
and if the packet arrives late, just start playing again and then increase 
the PDV buffer to whatever gap was observed, and if the PDV buffer has 
sustained fill, start playing it faster or skipping packets to play down 
the PDV buffer fill again.

So you'll observe silence or cutouts, but you'll still hear all sound but 
after this event, your mouth-ear-mouth-ear delay has now increased.

As far as I can tell, for instance Skype has a lot of different ways to 
cope with changing characteristics of the path, which work a lot better 
than a 10 year old classic PSTN-style G.711-over-IP style system with 
static 40ms PDV buffers, which behave exactly as you describe.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se

  reply	other threads:[~2015-05-07  7:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-19  5:26 jb
2015-04-19  7:36 ` David Lang
2015-04-19  7:48   ` David Lang
2015-04-19  9:33   ` jb
2015-04-19 10:45     ` David Lang
2015-04-19  8:28 ` Alex Burr
2015-04-19 10:20 ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-19 10:46   ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-19 16:30     ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-19 17:41       ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-19 19:40         ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-19 20:53           ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-21  2:56             ` Simon Barber
2015-04-21  4:15               ` jb
2015-04-21  4:47                 ` David Lang
2015-04-21  7:35                   ` jb
2015-04-21  9:14                     ` Steinar H. Gunderson
2015-04-21 14:20                     ` David Lang
2015-04-21 14:25                       ` David Lang
2015-04-21 14:28                         ` David Lang
2015-04-21 22:13                           ` jb
2015-04-21 22:39                             ` Aaron Wood
2015-04-21 23:17                             ` jb
2015-04-22  2:14                               ` Simon Barber
2015-04-22  2:56                                 ` jb
2015-04-22 14:32                       ` Simon Barber
2015-04-22 17:35                         ` David Lang
2015-04-23  1:37                           ` Simon Barber
2015-04-24 16:54                             ` David Lang
2015-04-24 17:00                               ` Rick Jones
2015-04-21  9:37                 ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-21 10:35                   ` jb
2015-04-22  4:04                     ` Steinar H. Gunderson
2015-04-22  4:28                       ` Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22  8:51                         ` [Bloat] RE : " luca.muscariello
2015-04-22 12:02                           ` jb
2015-04-22 13:08                             ` Jonathan Morton
     [not found]                             ` <14ce17a7810.27f7.e972a4f4d859b00521b2b659602cb2f9@superduper.net>
2015-04-22 14:15                               ` Simon Barber
2015-04-22 13:50                           ` [Bloat] " Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22 14:09                             ` Steinar H. Gunderson
2015-04-22 15:26                             ` [Bloat] RE : " luca.muscariello
2015-04-22 15:44                               ` [Bloat] " Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22 16:35                                 ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-22 17:16                                   ` Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22 17:24                                     ` Steinar H. Gunderson
2015-04-22 17:28                                     ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-22 17:45                                       ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-23  5:27                                         ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-23  6:48                                           ` Eric Dumazet
     [not found]                                             ` <CAH3Ss96VwE_fWNMOMOY4AgaEnVFtCP3rPDHSudOcHxckSDNMqQ@mail.gmail.com>
2015-04-23 10:08                                               ` jb
2015-04-24  8:18                                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-24  8:29                                                   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-24  8:55                                                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-24  9:02                                                       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-24 13:32                                                         ` jb
2015-04-24 13:58                                                           ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-24 16:51                                                           ` David Lang
2015-04-25  3:15                                                       ` Simon Barber
2015-04-25  4:04                                                         ` Dave Taht
2015-04-25  4:26                                                           ` Simon Barber
2015-04-25  6:03                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-27 16:39                                                               ` Dave Taht
2015-04-28  7:18                                                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-28  8:01                                                                   ` David Lang
2015-04-28  8:19                                                                     ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-28 15:42                                                                       ` David Lang
2015-04-28  8:38                                                                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-28 12:09                                                                       ` Rich Brown
2015-04-28 15:26                                                                         ` David Lang
2015-04-28 15:39                                                                       ` David Lang
2015-04-28 11:04                                                                     ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-28 11:49                                                                       ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-28 12:24                                                                         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-28 13:44                                                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-28 19:09                                                                             ` Rick Jones
2015-04-28 14:06                                                                       ` Dave Taht
2015-04-28 14:02                                                                   ` Dave Taht
2015-05-06  5:08                                                               ` Simon Barber
2015-05-06  8:50                                                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-06 15:30                                                                   ` Jim Gettys
2015-05-06 18:03                                                                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-06 20:25                                                                     ` Jonathan Morton
2015-05-06 20:43                                                                       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-05-07  7:33                                                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-07  4:29                                                                       ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-05-07  7:08                                                                         ` jb
2015-05-07  7:18                                                                           ` Jonathan Morton
2015-05-07  7:24                                                                             ` Mikael Abrahamsson [this message]
2015-05-07  7:40                                                                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-07  9:16                                                                                 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-05-07 10:44                                                                                   ` jb
2015-05-07 11:36                                                                                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-07 11:44                                                                                     ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-05-07 13:10                                                                                       ` Jim Gettys
2015-05-07 13:18                                                                                         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-05-07 13:14                                                                                       ` jb
2015-05-07 13:26                                                                                         ` Neil Davies
2015-05-07 14:45                                                                                         ` Simon Barber
2015-05-07 22:27                                                                                           ` Dave Taht
2015-05-07 22:45                                                                                             ` Dave Taht
2015-05-07 23:09                                                                                             ` Dave Taht
2015-05-08  2:05                                                                                               ` jb
2015-05-08  4:16                                                                                                 ` David Lang
2015-05-08  3:54                                                                                               ` Eric Dumazet
2015-05-08  4:20                                                                                                 ` Dave Taht
2015-05-08 13:20                                                                                     ` [Bloat] DSLReports Jitter/PDV test Rich Brown
2015-05-08 14:22                                                                                       ` jb
2015-05-07  7:37                                                                             ` [Bloat] DSLReports Speed Test has latency measurement built-in Sebastian Moeller
2015-05-07  7:19                                                                           ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-05-07  6:19                                                                       ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-25  3:23                                                       ` Simon Barber
2015-04-24 15:20                                                     ` Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)
2015-04-25  2:24                                                   ` Simon Barber
2015-04-23 10:17                                             ` renaud sallantin
2015-04-23 14:10                                               ` Eric Dumazet
2015-04-23 14:38                                                 ` renaud sallantin
2015-04-23 15:52                                                   ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-23 16:00                                                     ` Simon Barber
2015-04-23 13:17                                             ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-22 18:22                                       ` Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22 18:39                                         ` [Bloat] Pacing --- was " MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-22 19:05                                           ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-22 15:59                               ` [Bloat] RE : " Steinar H. Gunderson
2015-04-22 16:16                                 ` Eric Dumazet
2015-04-22 16:19                                 ` Dave Taht
2015-04-22 17:15                                   ` Rick Jones
2015-04-19 12:14 ` [Bloat] " Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-04-19 12:56 jb
2015-04-19 13:10 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-19 13:53   ` jb
2015-04-19 15:38     ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-19 16:38       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-19 17:15         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-19 17:43           ` Dave Taht
2015-04-19 19:22             ` Dave Taht
2015-04-23 17:03               ` Dave Taht
2015-04-23 18:04                 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-23 18:08                   ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-23 20:19                   ` jb
2015-04-23 20:39                     ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24 21:45                     ` Rich Brown
2015-04-25  1:14                       ` jb
2015-04-23 21:44                   ` Rich Brown
2015-04-23 22:22                     ` Dave Taht
2015-04-23 22:29                       ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24  1:58                       ` Rich Brown
2015-04-24  2:40                         ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24  3:20                           ` Jim Gettys
2015-04-24  3:39                             ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24  4:04                               ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24  4:17                                 ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24 16:13                                   ` Rick Jones
2015-04-24  5:00                                 ` jb
2015-04-27 16:28                                   ` Dave Taht
2015-04-24 16:09                               ` Rick Jones
2015-04-24 13:49                         ` Pedro Tumusok
2015-04-23 22:51                     ` David Lang
2015-04-24  1:38                       ` Rich Brown
2015-04-24  4:16                   ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-24  4:24                     ` Dave Taht
2015-04-19 17:45           ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-19 18:26             ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-19 18:30               ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-19 19:15                 ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-20  3:15                 ` Aaron Wood
2015-04-20  7:00                   ` jb
     [not found]                     ` <CACQiMXbF9Uk3H=81at-Z9a2fdYKrRtRorSXRg5dBcPB8-aR4Cw@mail.gmail.com>
2015-04-20  8:11                       ` jb
2015-04-19 19:19             ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2015-04-19 21:57           ` Rich Brown
2015-04-19 23:21             ` jb
2015-04-20 14:51               ` David Lang
2015-04-20 15:51                 ` Dave Taht
2015-04-20 16:15                   ` Dave Taht
2015-04-19  0:57 Rich Brown
2015-04-19  4:01 ` Dave Taht
2015-04-20 14:33   ` Colin Dearborn
2015-04-19  8:29 ` Dave Taht
2015-04-19  8:38   ` Dave Taht
2015-04-19 12:21     ` jb
2015-04-19  9:17   ` MUSCARIELLO Luca IMT/OLN
2015-04-19 12:03     ` jb
2015-04-19 10:53 ` dikshie
2015-04-19 12:11   ` jb

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