From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90B473CB35 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 06:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 40056B1; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:52:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1522839172; bh=EQvttGwSPE1ynov+aM7k44Ve63S08CfPl/v5PJUH0h4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=xUBeT8YH2TLtcqVY+YuVZARWlviF7yN91R3uMFzIrO4JCiaR42IEChipr9zYerxbD PsfMRNWUnO2+MaVLetA3lEle25d2pd/kur30VMRuI4HkM6VIV3yEfJhQLCoJa36cIv n0xU0MVtcdN5ukqeVXBkR8hg6ImW96MlQh+9nj1E= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C359B0; Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:52:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 12:52:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Luca Muscariello cc: Dave Taht , Jonathan Morton , bloat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <50e57074-4ca5-59f7-f010-d9b2b845a8a7@rogers.com> <8DE589C3-9537-416D-AC7C-9250464869F9@gmail.com> <0ED5B59A-5C31-4F70-A2C9-04D9EA779A7B@ifi.uio.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [Bloat] Seen in passing: mention of Valve's networking scheme and RFC 5348 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:52:53 -0000 On Wed, 4 Apr 2018, Luca Muscariello wrote: > And yes, flow queueing, absolutely. Flow isolation, becomes fundamental > is such a zoo, or jungle. There was talk in IETF about a transport protocol that was proposed to do a lot of things TCP doesn't do, but still retain some things that has been useful with TCP. I think it was this one: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-nvo3-gue/ I'd like to see it not over UDP, but rather as a native IP protocol. The talk was about having the network being able to look into the state machine of the protocol (MSS size, equivalent of SYN, etc) but not into payload (which would be end-to-end encrypted). It would also be able to do muxed streams/message based to avoid head-of-line-blocking because of single packet loss. So any of this that comes up then the whole FQ machinery might benefit frmo being able to identify flows in any new protocol, but I imagine this is not a hard thing to do. I still have hopes for the flow label in IPv6 to do this job, even though it hasn't seen wide adoption so far. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se