From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm24-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm24-vm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 412763B260 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:37:46 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s2048; t=1480358265; bh=gveZyk8d9FEnXBuIm1kdAvj/qVHR1AFz/UNUePLEy9s=; h=Reply-To:Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=Pg6I2qplvC1sY1xG4Kkd5orK2Lq4/mlhB/YUABZirfUHQYJuEZvFFOsSVOBUVF3qyC9RQh53jgV4ot7MzM1dNk96JmFbkqfRSTws8gBoQO3q8aHDT1loNV9M5vZ3WUqr/8WJYU0mkNpuojn0R5IicuVW1shG+WsZJ4dzFiaSYHLLuT/VAoVOeFzmFj7i0KVOWyVqftuLb15cWGtY4+YpBxrvizQqdcEN9VGJ9bK/XYRS5neZASG+uxzknxr8ukVklf9SDGyqIwB7SLY8ieWPNVcPzU6c0Wn9pnGHExjqUr8HjYHksm0nqV0G7D5oKMf2XBWtV46GDYpFFXfIaRcVyA== Received: from [216.39.60.166] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 18:37:45 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.113] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 18:37:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp115.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2016 18:37:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 272615.70205.bm@smtp115.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: sn9UVusVM1n4fGgDho783tb3owfKNF_llMHgbn1xjEtfIhJ jIFpjxdbyLUd.zGwVj62gBWaPrVBCUHHiawpJDMrbNzAiT23aMZg9LLwN1bT fRQ11YD1WFAFtkYm_an2p3ShZ6nnEOsLwMPfLIIZA4xZwuD_ir5olnKFIDYl aAgkoNiU5kd_qp_4X7k_cqDFJqD39yo3ioxEue7ygt0eM._TDcy1tg7B2WiE cGYh7Y1NflPJyiJ.j1qh3Cnqk29lYbOtFC.7mH20PH_6EXsaTFGyxkkBq4wV 9QTOPGbV04wJS87N1rzbbmyyAaqI9bUomOIpwiGuVYvVOKnayU8xXcA9dgrJ SZqhLaTEa4XSaYwRBPsPHkXoqHjQUqzSI4utvMNWkQV3YrjmGzYz0mzywYnk USpMDyItNWGmB3z0v7qV0FbYL6JwDXrIC35ZkPzZt58Ph_DaTd6ZkaaKg8kg 4zz.2796qqtymLzsAd1SsMQu9XOpK1wxcramC_Fd.yIVlNlK4f8zYrOOg5Qr _szmC5rX00LYLwCjgP32xXfPYXFuIKLJVtt78vw.5XylzaecHcnio766JOn8 kcMai0G7eRUSjAo9tJWmhGeCX X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net References: <836b6c89-d7a0-49e1-e1b4-8e98b9263c1d@pollere.com> To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net From: David Collier-Brown Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:37:44 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <836b6c89-d7a0-49e1-e1b4-8e98b9263c1d@pollere.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] How to "sell" improvement X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:37:46 -0000 In this context, I'd say latency and the effect of bloat reduction on it and transfer time. Dave Taht can say much more (;-)) I'm just echoing his concern, from the point of view of a capacity planner. --dave c-b [I'm using latency as the time from the request to the first response, transfer time as the time from the first response to the last response, which may be 0, and sleep/think time as the time from the last response to the next request, for a given stream of requests and responses, AKA "transactions"] On 28/11/16 12:59 PM, Kathleen Nichols wrote: > That's a good idea in general, but what are you measuring for your > "actual performance"? > Raw throughput? Goodput (which requires a bit of processing)? Then what > about delay? > > On 11/28/16 9:41 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: >> Put the speed-test /into the router/, with a big red button to turn >> fq_codel on and off. >> >> * The performance reporting graphs can then run on a browser page >> for as long as you like, while you do other things, and go back to >> the page and see what it's been like. * Have a line for "perfect" >> performance, and anyone can see how close you're system is coming to >> it. * Have a button for a synthetic load test, of some shortish >> duration, and, * Put it on normal Linux hosts too, so you can test >> end-to-end. >> >> >> This has the advantage that it's code-first, so you don't have to >> convince the uninterested, and from it you can write a small and >> limited RFC to tell everyone else how you did it. >> >> As each new improvement comes along, actual performance slowly gets >> closer and closer to the optimal performance line... >> >> --dave >> >> >> On 28/11/16 10:21 AM, Jonathan Foulkes wrote: >>> Thanks for the Introduction Rich, and thanks again to you and many >>> others on this list for all your contributions over the years >>> helping to combat bloat. >>> >>> This product was born of my own frustration with finding a way to >>> help neighbors and family get a simple off-the-shelf solution that >>> even non-technical users can deploy. >>> >>> I look forward to participating more actively on this list. >>> >>> Jonathan >>> >>>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rich Brown >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I have been exchanging a few emails with Jonathan Foulkes from >>>> evenroute.com. He tells me that his company is installing OpenWrt >>>> on a commercial, off the shelf (COTS) TP-Link router and selling >>>> them on commercially. His "secret sauce" is an auto-update >>>> facility and improved setup software, which includes a >>>> rate-detection step that operates continually to adjust the >>>> fq_codel parameters to the actual line rate. You can take a look >>>> at IQrouter.com, or look them up on Amazon. >>>> >>>> This might be a solution to our current conundrum about not >>>> having an easy solution that solves our family's networking >>>> problem. I'm going to get one of these and try it out. >>>> >>>> He has been following our bufferbloat and make-fifi-fast work >>>> closely, as well as the work on LEDE, which he'll consider once >>>> it hits a stable point. I have invited him to join this list. >>>> >>>> Welcome, Jonathan. >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> >> -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify >> System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest >> davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain