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dmarc=none action=none header.from=indexexchange.com; Received: from YQXPR01MB3925.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c00:4e::18) by YQXPR01MB2726.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c00:4a::30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3348.16; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 20:35:23 +0000 Received: from YQXPR01MB3925.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::b8d9:5502:588e:8143]) by YQXPR01MB3925.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::b8d9:5502:588e:8143%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3348.018; Sat, 5 Sep 2020 20:35:23 +0000 Reply-To: dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com To: Dave Taht , David Collier-Brown Cc: bloat References: From: Dave Collier-Brown Organization: Index Exchange Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:35:21 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.11.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------91E9BC17F55A2E9819C65510" Content-Language: en-US X-ClientProxiedBy: CH2PR10CA0001.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:4c::11) To YQXPR01MB3925.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c00:4e::18) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [IPv6:2607:fea8:561f:e34d::3f7b] (2607:fea8:561f:e34d::3f7b) by CH2PR10CA0001.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:4c::11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3348.15 via Frontend Transport; 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X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2020 20:35:25 -0000 --------------91E9BC17F55A2E9819C65510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LWN said OK, but I'm stuck on the search for a striking test, one that reso= nates with "grandma". My next two thoughts, probably for the current long weekend, is either to c= all a loop-back number with Skype and/or ask Toke how he got "Big Buck Bunn= y" to suffer dropouts. I'd love to use the latter, as it aligns with the ob= servation that this is a time when conference-call failures are driving my = colleagues to drink (;-)) I also owe you a pull request for a "recipes" page. --dave On 2020-09-05 2:52 p.m., Dave Taht wrote: I note that.I pretty much took the summer off. And I'm trying to get started again. Did this article come off? On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:27 AM David Collier-Brown wrote: I suspect not enough people are aware of the later efforts of the bufferbloat team, so I'm thinking of one or two articles, starting with LWN and an audience of aficionados. The core community is aware of what we've done, but in my view we haven't converted "grandma". Grandma, as well as a whole bunch of ordinary engineers and partners of engineers, are dependent on debloated performance because they're working at home now, and competing with granddaughter playing video games while they're trying to hold a video call= . Right now, my colleagues at work suffer from more than a second of bloat-related lag. They therefore tend to speak over each other on con-calls, apologize, start again and talk over each other, again. After a little while, the picture becomes a distinctly silly one: a bunch of grown adults putting their hands up and waving, like little kids in school. No-one has called out =E2=80=9Cme, me, teacher=E2=80=9D yet, but I = expect it any time. I propose we show the results in terms that we can explain to Grandma, specifically concentrating on functioning VOIP. I just upgraded to Fedora 31, and the networking is absolutely stock, so I make a perfect victim/guinea-pig (;-)) Who's interested? --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | = -- Mark Twain _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including a= ny and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for= the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, co= pying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confident= iality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify= the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message fr= om your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not co= nstitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electro= nic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or= an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this teleco= mmunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal docume= ntation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been= signed by an authorized signatory. --------------91E9BC17F55A2E9819C65510 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LWN said OK, but I'm stuck on the search for a strikin= g test, one that resonates with "grandma".

My next two thoughts, probably for the current long we= ekend, is either to call a loop-back number with Skype and/or ask Toke how = he got "Big Buck Bunny" to suffer dropouts. I'd love to use the l= atter, as it aligns with the observation that this is a time when conference-call failures are driving my colleagues to = drink (;-))

I also owe you a pull request for a "recipes" page.

--dave

On 2020-09-05 2:52 p.m., Dave Taht wrote: 
I note that.I pretty much took the s=
ummer off. And I'm trying to get
started again. Did this article come off?

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 11:27 AM David Collier-Brown <davecb.42@gmail.com>=
 wrote:

  I suspect not enough people are aware of the later efforts of the
bufferbloat team, so I'm thinking of one or two articles, starting with
LWN and an audience of aficionados.

The core community is aware of what we've done, but in my view we
haven't converted "grandma". Grandma, as well as a whole bunch of
ordinary engineers and partners of engineers, are dependent on debloated
performance because they're working at home now, and competing with
granddaughter playing video games while they're trying to hold a video call=
.

Right now, my colleagues at work suffer from more than a second of
bloat-related lag. They therefore tend to speak over each other on
con-calls, apologize, start again and talk over each other, again. After
a little while, the picture becomes a distinctly silly one: a bunch of
grown adults putting their hands up and waving, like little kids in
school. No-one has called out =E2=80=9Cme, me, teacher=E2=80=9D yet, but I =
expect it any
time.

I propose we show the results in terms that we can explain to Grandma,
specifically concentrating on functioning VOIP. I just upgraded to
Fedora 31, and the networking is absolutely stock, so I make a perfect
victim/guinea-pig (;-))

Who's interested?


--dave
--
David Collier-Brown,                     | Always do right. This will
gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
da=
vecb@spamcop.net                  |                      -- Mark Twain

_______________________________________________
Bloat mailing list
Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat




--=20
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com |              -- =
Mark Twain

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND D= ISCLAIMER : T= his telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confiden= tial information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or discl= osure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you= have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender im= mediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This tel= ecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to condu= ct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offe= r, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication ar= e subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and ar= e not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an = authorized signatory.

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