From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A36693B29E for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-31f737b8b69so13426799f8f.3 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 07:28:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1696084107; x=1696688907; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eqagfonhuJF209jgaeSj7WAnGP57YqFrSYrHGBDgoNQ=; b=YbzVWABR9u2UodjeR5+bGmIEb4EV3BgxXB/qdJFh5OtMm/eo2zvHMHq2mFV9Tya5NT LBPfRPTAqNGGURy7puufi50GW1cJLk0BWIiR8qyaDQI+PJBO2D1iDmxSmL+yKKN6Q0rU PpGB6/sRTAUo58q1fUNlnITDzDE14NhOYJ2dfqgjAQKg69DzhS5HdOjnsxlPxkPy7WSG cIplOuGO7ZbPlXDBFPy9F2/9VrC4nFW6MeUvUbci7xROnawSuSp5F/6lZbAmQNE9nXGA 1gYsJmkemm24aPXI9V7Qvcfer2B6imo9HVny/O+0+c59xKimFxZte7q9qRTCHfEPt9Or HbFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696084107; x=1696688907; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eqagfonhuJF209jgaeSj7WAnGP57YqFrSYrHGBDgoNQ=; b=hEKbXqY2p5Ts+pnwOWqxI7b0cnroWH+VlAfiVaG3295MYDRRlTywss//fkW4KN4vRn D2FujRowadPf3GU6OYwyLifRUxMnVVHBmKVfiHzkAh9tjn8uQKaa4dN5bZUU3dujlWzG k4FA+Q3SnD56NkrMYRzwK6TJhzu3YiTzNZld4HjLqKftdvyov2GzPHZoAxHtDmapjrYb DHBTQKniJWM2U2q2pYrvo3TerWT3HzB9dmu9fD/Qh/h3j0IrZVWeCytQfDDQLvS4EGrB FIbKTRb3NmrPC6DwRFhOJn2X4Q7rxpHyadZ0FYcMzXIO0j45E4txXxIk1+BWHBu8IPKT oEgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwbELBKxM/tH6Wesa9Jw3sYBJpO9GRRZb8qWfi74u/vHhhb+89/ r5vTYktAPpqV0nZXNk1SaM6OzU/loZI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEPox+Mmh6m9abzX6g3bmgCtTV2goUcq5dyQVcdiUsYDQtHWRK2l4YcN0gZXlpnhdvilD+qRQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5610:0:b0:319:6d91:28bf with SMTP id l16-20020a5d5610000000b003196d9128bfmr5811097wrv.60.1696084107022; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 07:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dracor.xperim.be (82.228-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be. [80.200.228.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g18-20020a5d5552000000b00326f5d0ce0asm1381011wrw.21.2023.09.30.07.28.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 30 Sep 2023 07:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.184] (bajor.xperim.be [192.168.1.184]) by dracor.xperim.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0291D380092 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:28:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 16:28:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.15.1 To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <5so3r00n-31pn-14s7-7775-08731s3s551r@ynat.uz> <7508FE73-A154-4CBA-984C-748A80C5FFEC@gmail.com> <039490DA-48A7-4AE2-B00F-AA2A260FB747@gmail.com> <3F6D16C8-530E-4066-8B6A-C0644B3C2D2C@gmx.de> Content-Language: en-US From: Jan Ceuleers In-Reply-To: <3F6D16C8-530E-4066-8B6A-C0644B3C2D2C@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] net neutrality back in the news X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2023 14:28:29 -0000 On 30/09/2023 14:19, Sebastian Moeller via Bloat wrote: > > P.S.: Of course if we look close enough we surely can find corner-cases where either the EU regulations or the translation into national law result in less desirable outcomes, but "nothing is perfect" and all in all the regulations seem to be "good enough". With the caveat that explicitly excluding ISP interconnect from the regulations BEREC essentially pointed the way for ISPs wanting to monetize their eye-balls twice to do so via interconnects, but that only works for the 800 pound gorillas and generally is not a game smaller ISPs can play. I do understand why BEREC wants to stay out of the interconnection issue, as this is rather complicated and the market seems to generally work okay-ish (that is not badly enough to make intervention a hot-button issue for voters and hence politicians). EU Regulations have force of law in and of themselves; they need not be transposed into national law. That sets Regulations apart from Directives: those do need to be transposed into national law. Having said that many member states may adopt laws that implement Regulations, but in case of any differences between those national laws and the Regulations in question the Regulations will prevail in the courts.