From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org [52.28.6.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0B553BA8E for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 13:44:04 -0500 (EST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1543344243; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=DYH/X3b5Z+jXccN5B97ZllM/H7WlRBPY0fuCR9/irglTnedd7mFMXcHB6rEi2fTQsfruw6AINyNKD ddPgDSn/FHOyRRG4f8utySpn352OVj3sFqeSYvHWYHcBNvmbtq8XfykxULEEz+MGFP8f/9MsjbeZWB s2w8+HRXghNAiqtW1200NfxrvIroQ7Mrr31AxrZ15bte+VZ44HhDJADhu1wvPWPSkvigs2DirMU57M 2VKwcmsrrFDC9fZRMMVd+gzopnbsHOMG99O62sIgIG2qIAbcmgYrL3CcE3quMH5b0lkcROAqGf8G69 x/9wrQreGNiDpcdgZXodXmWc4rvJdUg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:to:subject:dkim-signature:from; bh=+k4t91V2sExz2h6OO+MJQTOA7hGcqQr0neiB4HcWXIg=; b=PvfTEYhy05CNTDAyHRMyhlzmhBFWMnjsLcb5KIQB/1o1fs8EvKtB5cmX8r29l67aKShTbcTb6LK00 lqF2a/AfU79sZ/aWY+Qa1wILor9NiLk1UvurUQ/+oMEJDPfWo2L+sAHmkdaoikMkp8RVbR9yVQrXF5 TNw7V5Wssej4JH8432+d2eKvSzyqG0alIzNv0AXBkeGSG55nxBNaZOrIgrrFzLqBgjHMAr95MQFeqL TlMAg0jP5uYuvQCTAQQy2nqOGVRdxBTBSxO1V3pd1UyLul6kxgnaRbCI6tH5CDhiUDGGQ95gtFF4Gs 0aUJeM8LrtA6okayPM5JJB4TN9W5wsQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.eu.mailhop.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=pollere.com smtp.remote-ip=67.160.239.168; dmarc=none header.from=pollere.com; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:to:subject:from; bh=+k4t91V2sExz2h6OO+MJQTOA7hGcqQr0neiB4HcWXIg=; b=M+UW9v4O/xawJqnmXM8cBQ1hLBcfv7pjNoduspVUQVNg8M37QCK2JjvXMRT2hoYiRGSOPivmch4t+ VjyLzEcs+HDVECuvLyFwrPn6oW1d1lfTDa0L9zyFeBK35v/RPCypUUjXlzgXUNeSkxN7CUQOn+tBYx v5cKJNQf8F1uc2kkmF45NlHlpsE+Z//j3SIbfOgkeoFDiSEFpRNLZOZaHb4oiXN2tmNjzi0TsGiGjj hkSkmTxgy1L/mnVDddF5oabOUPBhdRwYLMkl88WmpS+krJl1zeCQNVgqCsLWuAGOdKi4qW9ebPnu14 gowQEybLflBE6MrrRxnUmauTLVSxuuA== X-MHO-RoutePath: a21uaWNob2xz X-MHO-User: 677ca735-f274-11e8-8a28-a1efd8da9a94 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.160.239.168 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from kmnimac.local (unknown [67.160.239.168]) by outbound3.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 677ca735-f274-11e8-8a28-a1efd8da9a94; Tue, 27 Nov 2018 18:44:01 +0000 (UTC) To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <86b16a95-e47d-896b-9d43-69c65c52afc7@kit.edu> From: Kathleen Nichols Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=nichols@pollere.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsDiBEC83ecRBAC+SoOIjjcKTrEvMEA6p7BamLNoS5P/Pb51j184ZU2/s3aCLl3Q/BCkFxT+ cFCnthIsgxMXrSGELwRkevkTX8GUlBaKIvrp7Ye9NjbYBC1NZWFyAKzZUI1eF2AibUbXAFtV qAIPyCXuMdaOSrXTPAdbHIQxZk9zEa6Xh0zj1uwczwCg7iDV4fIclpmP8arjkQWm8grrwi8D /2Bb81fEGvF83KVNoPiy1hNfrIHmYevQiLaOVJkJPQzi+DxJSRCRkAV7z7nAhXXWVCWkshHL r5d07ElPZPgxft74pk3U6ygqFAGz97V8A2+7ZLa2RHwgb5ZIUeaSMgpXqUfxjDQuq34AQBWX 8xwwBR4JhuhxrN+8uZEMG0Neqm5SA/9wkL6moHBKl+PvV3O7ap+kVXC97NfVFG72b8EVvw5W HRUtUGdxFhNuAhS4QNWaCdYOm6VC9xlZGhykcXAzyC0tjB8Kbk44KzJrtIzpCWoI58PZSCPD n8PhFKKItcQ/hY8QNAeHEcEvInCjNz/w+7ik0gF8xQy2yA9eulVzg7l2380mS2F0aGxlZW4g TmljaG9scyA8bmljaG9sc0Bwb2xsZXJlLm5ldD7CYgQTEQIAIgUCVL1s9AIbAwYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ+dkULylClLYRYwCgzd2IlR14SGzqKWdxY5W4kJ1yAyQA oI6A9QUyuoz/5DDBN1o5g/nFXpS5zsFNBEC83ocQCACXUuOfleOzud5aRpG20cdZcmGwn46Y K7vXPKHrtKema3u3AhDhm/dpU2hnD/1bflCnHk2TX/MNnJ/9jVLVAMcj1GmXS4Zj/DMypQ2/ 5r213nBbWEjcS4wOhFEAcfApEU0d4LG/v/SPDJqqrvP5txXxox9z7JG0OEXeGzZU8Ro5LAkJ HJSBdSN1je61XYolMbPvZ8Wo9APIJnJEIc1DG2+3oHgJA1a2QN+xnia4hs90CnR/VDcBSH/l yFk0lWnBxeJLwqYTWgGRLAM4JtA3C3LYe/h6gK2o4ug0NRcKRBdJk4pHDJenjKx1LjjpGEBA L5FyZqAA+3Do9PH8Pzm4vDKDAAMGCACBSF4C01c4XJgm/qw0moM7sxcb2nBVIpEubl8OHQf3 zLX2UAoNy8SKjHZsyp984jTLBr/VHqY/+BsL9W1uPf0ssPnYieq58aMtRXEtFCF2i4m6CZoj a+hFImKhIIvvhGE1rYyK13AnvjywTDK0XadJwqNKNPwZasHnK7xx/foKmaMilZL4UwRDEs39 1FQfbhcm83NZ2xGEuK+fYAg8VA5pTIUcrhQEC9sORQ3g5Alw+2o13oC6fO/SyQ9iqnOZ0WBq +cJE10zM7K5aNuNI/853ot9fglOHRnlDnxd9pg+QxGq1L4O4l3rjoLbtiqtGOzJpUAguBsGu JZQJgyS9fkNjwkkEGBECAAkFAkC83ocCGwwACgkQ+dkULylClLYI6wCgtctwza77h+XplNbp hHp3WFniTxwAn1duX7R8SZX7KDSysitOQEXN3v6O Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:44:00 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2018 18:44:05 -0000 I have been kind of blown away by this discussion. Jim Gettys kind of kicked off the current wave of dealing with full queues, dubbing it "bufferbloat". He wanted to write up how it happened so that people could start on a solution and I was enlisted to get an article written. We tried to draw on the accumulated knowledge of decades and use a context of What Jim Saw. I think the article offers some insight on queues (perhaps I'm biased as a co-author, but I'm not claiming any original insights just putting it together) https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2071893 Further, in our first writing about CoDel, Van insisted on getting a good explanation of queues and how things go wrong. I think the figures and the explanation of how buffers are meant to be shock absorbers are very useful (yes, bias again, but I'm not saying you have to agree about CoDel's efficacy, just about how queues happen and why we need some buffer). https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2209336 It's just kind of weird since Jim's evangelism is at the root of this list (and Dave's picking up the torch of course). Reading is a lost art. Kathie