On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, Jonathan Morton wrote:

>> On 23 Nov, 2016, at 20:46, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>> Do you need a device that ships with the fixes in it from the factory?
>
> I think this is what we should aim for.  That would greatly simplify installation for Joe Average, and it could serve as an anchor point in the wider industry.

I don't disagee that we should be aiming for this in the long run. But acting as 
if we have no solution at all until this is achieved is wrong.

David Lang

> Ideally, it would have official mutual support with LEDE or OpenWRT, so that updates to the latter automatically propagate.  Even if it takes a month between writing a patch and being sure it’s reached end-users, that’s still a major improvement over the status quo.
>
> It’s much harder to rely on firmware replacement on existing devices, because the latter can change hardware on the same model number without notice, or simply discontinue manufacture in favour of a new model.  That makes a minefield for networking novices to wade through.  So it’s fine for experimentation among ourselves, and for a certain type of early-adopter, but not for the average gamer.
>
> - Jonathan Morton
>
>